Two New Model Army

[Abraham]

SN 12051
http://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/11/88/76/52/img_3711.jpg
http://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/11/88/76/52/img_3712.jpg

SN 129134
http://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/11/88/76/52/img_3713.jpg
http://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/11/88/76/52/img_3714.jpg

[Abraham]

The first is SN 129134
The second SN 12051

Sorry !

[Abraham]

In Switzerland it's very difficult to find info about them

Help me please

Thx

[carbineone]

Your lower serial numbered one is likely a Old Model 1861 made around 1862. It may not say New Model on the barrel. Just:

Patented Dec 17 1861
Manufactured by Remingtons Ilion N.Y. Yours would be a late production 1861 as it has exposed threads at the barrel rear. It has the German cone type front sight.

Second one with the higher serial number is surely a New Model. My guess would be made later 1864 or maybe early 1865. Does it have any inspectors letters stamped on things like the cylinder, barrel, loading lever, frame? barrel should read:
Patented Sept. 14 1858
E Remington & Sons, Ilion New York USA
New Model

Nice to see the pics. Wander how they ended up over there?

My dates could be a Little off so maybe someone else will chime in too.

[Abraham]

Thank you very much

Some marks

On the 12051:

Patented Dec 17 1861
Manufactured by Remingtons Ilion N.Y.

Barrel: A
Frame left side: S
Frame right side: A
Loading level: S
Trigger guard: S
Cylinder: S, X, R, 5
Cartouche on the the grip (RRR)

On the 129134:

Patented Sept. 14 1858
E Remington & Sons, Ilion New York USA
New Model

Barrel left side: R
Barrel right side: P
Trigger guard: P
Top of the cylinder: W
Nothing visible on the frame
Cartouche on the the grip (RRR)

A question.: why the oldest is mark 1861 and the youngest 1858?

[Abraham]

An other difference ?

[carbineone]

I really cannot tell you why they reverted back to the original Beals patent date on the later ones. But yours appear to have the correct barrels in place. Does your serial numbers match on your frame under the grips and the underside of the barrels?

Loading lever went through a few different designs over the production of these. Some you will encounter even had the lever cutout on top so the pin could be moved forward and the cylinder removed without dropping the lever. But the Government did not like that design and it was dropped quickly.

[Abraham]

Yes they are same number
I am thinking how to resize (higher) the sight In german silver

[billt]

Hi Abraham,
Your revolver serial number 12051 was manufactured in February 1863. It is a transition revolver, which means it has some parts from the Old Model also known as an Elliot and a New Model. The cone front sight and barrel address are from the Old Model. The rest of the revolver seems to be a New Model.
Revolver with serial number 129134 is a New Model, which was made in January 1865. Both revolvers are martially marked with the inspection letters stamped on the various parts and the cartouches on the grips.
There are three models of Army (44 caliber) and Navy (36 caliber) sized revolvers. The first was the Beal’s, then the Elliot or Old Model and finally the New Model.
The Beal’s revolver had a barrel address with an 1858 patent date. The patent was for method of retaining the cylinder pin with the loading lever. The loading lever had to be lowered to remove the cylinder pin.
The Elliot had the 1861 patent date, which allowed the cylinder pin to be pulled forward and the cylinder removed without lowering the loading lever. As Carbineone wrote the Government did not like this arrangement because the cylinder pin could slide out while in a holster which caused the cylinder to lock up.
On the New Model Remington went back to the Beal’s type arrangement with the old 1858 patent date.
If you would like more information I would recommend “Remington Army and Navy Revolvers 1861-1868” by Donald Ware.

Hope this helps

[Abraham]

Thank you for all that information, I ordered this book but it is very hard to find in Europe and indeed the original Remington too!
Thank you again warmly
I'm competitive shooter with old weapons and I have a problem with the nipples of 129134 that were changed by the previous owner, they do not collide with the primers, I'm looking nipples originals or copies of the same dimensions.

[billt]

I would try Dixie Gun Works, Union City, Tennessee.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com

Also if you go to the RSA Home Page you will see on the left side a link called Service/Parts. There are several parts dealers listed who sell and make parts for Remington products.

Bill

[Abraham]

Thank you very much but US law does not authorize the export of weapons or spare parts unfortunately

[carbineone]

You mean someone like S&S Firearms, or Lodgewood cannot even send nipples for a antique over there?

[jimhallam]

Export IS possible but several years ago the US Government changed the rules. A Class 8 FFL fee went up by 8 or 10 times and THEN later in that year they said that it was valid for only 25 exports -- and each one after that would incur a charge of $100.

So -- like all devious political acts, they didn't actually BAN exports but priced many small ones out of the market.

I understand that some items under $100 value do not need an export license.
Perhaps you ought to contact a Licensed Exporter --- there are still quite a few left in the USA.

One thought --- SURELY if a pre-1899 gun is not a "firearm" under Federal Law then the pARTS of that are not "Parts of a Firearm" --- so they ought to be "exportable" without too many problems/

Have I got it wrong?

[admin]

I've sent antique parts / pieces to numerous places oversea's (France, Germany, UK) never had an issue on my end and they've never had a problem either. This and empty obsolete caliber brass that the manufacture wouldn't send directly.