1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Topics related to Pre - 1898 Remington Pistols
Post Reply
Amish Raven
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:13 am

1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by Amish Raven »

From a recent trip to Pittsburgh PA and a visit with my 99 year old Great Uncle... I have received a civil war pistol that was in HIS fathers collection... Last name Himmler. The Number under the barrel is 121014 - I'm wondering if anyone would have any information about this weapon. It has the 2 stamps on the original wooden handles (indicating it was issued during the civil war) and has the Letter D stamped on the side - Is that another inspection or a location of manufacture stamp?

I greatly appreciate the help with tracking this weapon. I don't believe it was originally my Great Grandfathers either... I think he got it from someone else?
billt
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 6:42 pm

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by billt »

Hello Amish,
Your Great Uncle’s Revolver was manufactured in December of 1864. The letter D is an inspection mark, which was applied to the part on which it is stamped after the part was deemed to have conformed to specifications. Marks are usually found on the barrel, frame and trigger guard. They are less frequently found on the bottom of the grips and the loading lever. These marks can be the same on one or more parts if the same inspector inspected multiple parts. Once all of the parts were deemed acceptable the Principal sub-Inspector stamped his cartouche on the outside of the left grip. The existence of a cartouche indicates the revolver was accepted by the Ordinance Department and not necessarily that is was issued during the Civil War. The Ordinance Department had some 75,000 revolvers of all types at the end of the Civil War, which were not issued to troops. Since your Great Uncle’s revolver was among the last 35,000 Remington Revolvers accepted it might not have been issued.


Hope this helps,

Bill
Amish Raven
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:13 am

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by Amish Raven »

Very helpful!! Thank you for the information...

A few more bits of data - My friend (a gunsmith) came over last night and we disassembled the pistol and the Barrel S.N. matches the Brass trigger guard number and the Handle number!!

The spring inside the handle is broken - (anyone know a good supplier to purchase one?)

Also the "Finger" which rotates the barrel may be missing a spring? It doesn't seem to work consistently?

The plan is to restore it and return it to my Great Uncle in a display case to hang on his wall.

I'd appreciate any information or help!
billt
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 6:42 pm

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by billt »

You should be able to get those parts from Dixie Gun Works.
Amish Raven
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:13 am

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by Amish Raven »

Thanks again for the information - I was able to call them and order 3 new springs for around $25 total!! Nice, fast, and cheap... Great website. I decided to replace an additional interior spring while I was at it.

One additional question - do you know of a way to track the ownership of the pistol?

Thanks
Mark
billt
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 6:42 pm

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by billt »

That revolver was delivered to the Ordinance Department. If it was issued to a trooper and the Company Clerk recorded it in the Company records it may reside in the National Archives.
Amish Raven
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:13 am

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by Amish Raven »

Update - I've received the parts from Dixie - Very nice!! The pistol dry fires nicely and the action is all working once more! (very happy)

I've also contacted the NARA in D.C. and have asked they try to track the SN of the weapon? Hopefully they can solve the mystery as to how my Great, Great Grandfather obtained the revolver in the first place?

Great website - thanks again for the assistance.
drm2m
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:04 am

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by drm2m »

The serial number on this Remington is very close to the S/n on your gun.
Yours is 121014----mine is 107274.

'D' inspector's initial on a 63 NMA on the trigger guard and on the bottom of the grips. Nice clear 'OWA' cartouche on the left grip.

Image

Image

Image

S/n 107274.

Image

Image
PatG
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:40 am

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by PatG »

Hallo, my friends! Happy to be part of this group!
I’m an Italian collector of handguns and rifles, expecially milsurplus.

Recently I bought a Remington New Model Army revolver .44 caliber that I like very much. You can see it here:

Image

On the left grip there are the letters “GP”, that I know being the initials forming the acceptance stamp of Giles Porter , inspector of Remington handguns for the U.S. Government.

Image

The original serial numbers (matching) are impressed on the left grip frame (under the left grip), on the trigger guard lug and on the bottom of the barrel. As this number is 85778, I think that my gun has been manufactered in July, 1864, and sell to the Army of U.S. Can you confirm my hypothesis?

Image

Image

Image

On the bottom of the barrel there is another number (21901), but I have no idea of what its meaning coud be. Any suggestion?

Image


Many thanks in advance for your comments and your help

Pat
billt
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 6:42 pm

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by billt »

Hello Pat,
You are correct about the date your revolver was manufactured, July 1864.
I know that Don Ware in his book “Remington Army and Navy Revolvers 1861- 1888” identified the GP cartouche as that of Giles Porter. However, in a book published in 2016 “U.S. Military Arms Inspector Marks” by Daum and Pate, that cartouche has been identified as that of George Palmer. They go on to state that the GP cartouche was erroneously credited to Giles Porter who was a career army officer who graduated from West Point and spent his entire career in the Artillery Corps. As far as the 21901 stamped on the bottom of the barrel it most likely was done post manufacture but I have no idea why.

Enjoy your revolver,

Bill
171evergreenfkl
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:00 am

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by 171evergreenfkl »

I do not wish to throw cold h20 on your enthusiasm for tracking the issuance of this revolver , but having spent time researching at the National Archives , you may be in for an exercise of humility and futility. Unless the system has changed radically, the archive does not maintain any records on individual firearms. As such, you will need to plan a trip to the Archives. To enter you must go to the rear entrance and register as a researcher. Once you gain access to the inner sanctum you will need to posses some vital information such as the regiment this revolver was issued to. From that point you can locate the record group you wish to research. You will then need to file a written request to have those pulled from the repository. That may take weeks to months. If you get a negative response, that does not mean the records do not exist, but they may have been requested by another researcher. You may have a better chance of success if you contact Springfield Research, but you will need to be a subscriber to access their data base. Good luck and if you do get info back from your initial request please let me know. Thanks
vr1967
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:48 pm

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by vr1967 »

Frank Mallory did extensive research at the archives recording serial numbers and was the original owner of Springfield Research Services until his passing. And he provided his research for free. Not sure who has it now.
I know someone who has the 1995 versions of Frank’s books. Will see if I can gain access to them, but I believe there are a few later books too with updates.
PatG
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:40 am

Re: 1858 New Model Army - Serial Number Tracking info?

Post by PatG »

Hallo Bill, 171evergreenfkl and vr1967!

Many thanks for your information! They were very useful.

If I will have any news, I'll let you know.

Have a nice day

Pat
Post Reply