Remington & Sons ILION NY Pat: W.S SMOOT Oct 21 1873 SN 2669

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nmpd2611
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Re: Remington & Sons ILION NY Pat: W.S SMOOT Oct 21 1873 SN 2669

Post by nmpd2611 »

Alot of great information. I realize this board is pretty old but there seems to be a lot of knowledgeable folks on it. I found this Remington Smoot recently in an estate collection. I believe by your descriptions it's a model 2. It is currently for sale, thought I'd put it on here to see if an enthusiast might be interested. Did I see correctly that the caliber would be 32 rimfire? Thanks in advance! Image
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Patbar
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Re: Remington & Sons ILION NY Pat: W.S SMOOT Oct 21 1873 SN 2669

Post by Patbar »

I have an engraved 2nd model Smoot which has the false ivory celluloid grips. I have heard that Remington simply called them "ivory grips" and sold them the same price as the real ivory !
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aardq
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Re: Remington & Sons ILION NY Pat: W.S SMOOT Oct 21 1873 SN 2669

Post by aardq »

Hi Patbar,

I can't comment on what Rem called the faux grips, or if they were claimed to be real ivory. Today a lot of collectors call the celluloid grips, "Rem-ivory,." and there is an easy test for them. My question if about the finish. It's hard to tell from the photo, but what is the finish of the pistol? Have you checked the grips to insure that they are celluloid? They have "age cracks" found on real ivory, but usually not of the faux ivory.
Thank you,
Daniel
Patbar
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Location: France

Re: Remington & Sons ILION NY Pat: W.S SMOOT Oct 21 1873 SN 2669

Post by Patbar »

Hi Daniel,

The well known professional who sold me this gun advertised it as being factory engraved and having faux- ivory celluloid grips. It has a nickeled finish.

In the book "Remington Smoot Patent & Number Four Revolvers" by Harry J. Parker, Ora Lee Parker and Joan S. Reisch, its is written that there were two 2nd model Smoot with faux-ivory grips in the serial range 801-1000. The serial of mine is 826.

Here is a photo of each side of the grips :
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aardq
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Re: Remington & Sons ILION NY Pat: W.S SMOOT Oct 21 1873 SN 2669

Post by aardq »

Hi Patbar,

Thanks for the info on the finish. Parker's book is the best resource for the Smoots, but we have learned a lot since the book was published. Dr. Parker died over 10 years ago, but no one, that I'm aware of, has continued his work. A few more blue Smoots have turned up, but I don't believe enough to change any of Parker's assumptions.

Now I suspect that the grips are real ivory, because the faux ivory grips had a small, ferrous plate on the inside of each grip, plus your grips have weathering cracks. In addition it appears that the inside of the grip has saw marks. The faux grips are celluloid, so they would be smooth with no saw type marks. A simple test is a "hot pin" test. Heat a pin or needle with a candle or lighter. Doesn't have to be red hot, but very warm to the touch. Touch the tip of the pin to the inside of the grips. The hot pin will start to go into faux grips, but won't move on ivory.

Isn't Remmie collecting fun?? :)

Daniel
Patbar
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Re: Remington & Sons ILION NY Pat: W.S SMOOT Oct 21 1873 SN 2669

Post by Patbar »

Hi Daniel,

I have other guns with real ivory grips and what puzzles me with the ones of my Smoot is the difference in texture and color on the side of the right grip (see photo below). I have never seen this on ivory.

As you wrote, collecting Remmies is fun. I have ten different models of them, but my collection isn't limited to Remington as I collect all 19th century American firearms. I also love modern reproductions of 18th century flintlock longrifles that I build from kits, and more generally American history.
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aardq
Posts: 317
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Re: Remington & Sons ILION NY Pat: W.S SMOOT Oct 21 1873 SN 2669

Post by aardq »

Hi patbar,

My first guess is that it's not elephant ivory, but some other type of ivory. The color doesn't look like elephant ivory, but I'm far from being an ivory expert. My second guess is that the texture might be tool marks from when the grip were made. I have no third guess, so I'm open to suggestions. Please let us know if you find out more about the grips.

Daniel
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