This from author George Layman: "The markings appear to be the Lion of Judah and looks to be a reworked Belgian (Nagant perhaps) that was "decorated" in Ethiopia/Abyssynia by Jewish craftsmen in that land who are highly regarded for their decorative abilities.Thats my take on it as the shield appears to be written in Amharic language symbols. Would love to get a picture for my book but better hurry."
It doesn't look like a Nagant rifle to me, however, lacking prominent markings. It has the breech characteristics of pre-Aug 1870 manufacture. Does the rifle have Remington tang markings? Ed
There are no markings on the gun other than what I have posted pictures of.I have stripped the wood from the action and cannot find anything else.Thank you .Graham
Graham,
Very interesting Rolling Block!! I agree with Ed, it looks like a Remington product. I can't contradict George as to it being Ethiopian as he knows far more about these foreign markings than I do. However, in all of Ethiopia's currency, coinage and paper, the Lion of Judah is depicted as a ferocious beast unlike the top of your receiver. This looks more like a Saturday morning cartoon character from the 1950's. As for your measurements, I believe you have an error somewhere. The most logical choice for a .50 cal in Ethiopia would be the 12mm Papal. It shares measurements with the .50-70: rim .618" (.50-70 .656-.665"); base .560" (.50-70 .564"). Even the .577 Snider & .577/450 have rim .7468", base .659".
The closest I can find to your measurements is the .58 Berdan with rim .748" and base .653".
I would suggest you recheck your measurements. I also checked the possibility that someone had run a shotshell reamer into the chamber but, the closest is the 20 ga shell and it has a rim of .757" and a base of .681".
Tom
OK I have rechecked the measurements diameter of the rim is .748+- and right in front of the rim it measures .665 and it is definatly a .50+- caliber.Graham
Graham,
I'm baffled! Your base diameter is larger that that of a .58 Berdan. So, to be .50 cal it either has a bottle neck case or quite a bit of taper to the case. Either way, I have no idea. I have some pretty good reference material and I can find no bottleneck .50 cal military cartridge. It may be some obscure 12mm European ctg but not any "standard" military cartridge that I can find. Another possibility; a lot of years have passed since the rifle was made. It may not be in an original caliber/cartridge.
Tom
Graham- Can you post an overall view, or two views, one of each half of the rifle? Does the barrel have flats at the frame, or is it completely round? Ed
Multiple pictures are being provided and there are flats just in front of the reciever at the bottom of the barreland you can see them in the pictures.I also took a picture of the back side of the battle sight as there are some markings that may be helpfull.Thank you.Graham
It's been a while since I lived in Saudi Arabia, but the left side appears to be marked "1", "2", "3", and something that should be a "4" but I can't tell what it is. The top of the leaf is labeled "5", "6", "7", "8" , and "9".
Here's a decoder ring:
Matt
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is
strong enough to take everything you have - Thomas Jefferson
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
In this life we get nothing save by effort - Theodore Roosevelt
Perhaps we have an ID: a rolling block copy from Nepal! At the Baltimore gun show this weekend I saw a socket bayonet that came out of the Nepal Arsenal (one of the thousands of arms now offered on the market) and it had a very similar lion marking. This was the whole lion, but the head was identical to that on your rifle. The Nepalese script on the bayonet was also similar to that on the frame of the rifle. No, I don't real Nepalese. I suggest you look up the MAN AT ARMS article on these Nepal Arsenal arms from a couple of years ago, or articles in other gun magazines. There is a recent article on the Nepal Gehendra rifle in MAN AT ARMS just a couple of months ago
It appears I was mistaken of the Amharic script to include the Lion of Judah as the symbol, as the script on the shield appears to be a Farsi inscription regarding a pledge to the Mufti in that linguistic style. This would now confirm a true suspicion that Persia (Iran) did indeed have a connection to the rolling block but as far as numbers or manufacturer requires deeper research. The butt stock and forearm almost appear to be an Enfield muzzleloder (which pattern I am not sure of) that was "Transformed" so to speak with a rolling block action in the middle. Persia also utilized a symbol of the lion as did Ethiopia. I am working on the rest of this with a contact in Iraq of all places! Is it possible to obtain a disc of photos of your rifle to place in my fortcoming book of the Military Rolling Block? Thank You George
To me it also looks like the screw heads for the triggerguard and trigger assembly are larger in diameter than most of the military rollers I have seem. Or maybe it is just an optional delusion.
