I ran across a Remington M1894 SxS at a local gunshop today, and was hoping to get some input from all you fine folks at RSA.
I'm a big Remington fan, and have bought 10 of them within the past 5 years, including several 11-48, 870, and 1100 series shotguns. I currently own 7 Remington firearms. However, I'm quite ignorant when it comes to the truly old Remington guns.
The 12 gauge M1894 I was looking at appears to have steel barrels, rather than Damascus. It may be a standard grade gun, as the receiver finish was basic. This gun has undergone an amateur restoration, which is a negative in my opinion. Several factory screws have been replaced with common "hardware store" screws, etc. The buttstock has some nice figure and may be original (fitted with wood spacer and modern recoil pad), but the forend is a schnabel. The metal work has been reblued, and no lettering remains on the top surfaces of the barrels. Asking price was $499.
What should I look for in a M1894? I will have to measure the chamber length to see if they are (or were opened up to) 2 3/4". Are there any sources of replacement parts, or will any broken parts have to be custom made?
Thanks,
M1894 questions
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Re: M1894 questions
Remington Hammerless Doubles -- Two patents were issued on the same day, October 30, 1894. No. 528,507 pertaining to the milling of the frame was granted to R. C. Fay of Ilion, New York, assignor to the Remington Arms Company of same place; and No. 528,508 pertaining to the automatic ejectors, to R.C. Fay and G.E. Humphreys of Ilion, New York, assignor to the Remington Arms Company of same place.
If the gun is absolutely plain with no engraving, just "Remington Arms Co." stamped on the side of the frame it is an A-grade if a Model 1894. Model 1894 serial numbers were in the 100,000 range and often preceded by a P a Remington stock letter. Also perfectly plain was the lower priced Model 1900 with serial numbers in the 300,000 range, and often a stock letter of Q. These were also known as the K-grade.
A Model 1894 B-grade had just a bit of borderline engraving. As the grades went up C-, D-, and E-grade the engraving became more extensive, the stock wood and checkering finer, and the overall workmanship better. There is normally a grade letter stamped on the left side watertable, or on "bridge-frame guns" (usually 103,500 and lower serial numbers) on the bridge. Also, if you remove the trigger guard, the grade letter is often stamped in the wood after the serial number.
If a Remington Model 1894 is fitted with automatic ejectors the the written grade designation has a letter E added to it and if it has Remington Steel barrels an R or Ordnance Steel Barrels an O -- AE-grade (A-grade with ejectors and the regular Damascus barrels), AER-grade (A-grade with ejectors and Remington Steel barrels), BO-grade (B-grade with Ordnance Steel barrels) or CEO-grade (C-grade with ejectors and Ordnance Steel barrels). I’ve never seen these extra letters stamped on the gun’s watertable. In the Model 1900s things are reversed. Remington must have considered their Remington Steel barrels standard and appended a D if the gun was equipped with 2-blade Damascus barrels -- KD-grade or KED-grade.
You need to check out Charles G. Semmer's book "Remington Double Shotguns." It is available from the author 7885 Cyd Drive, Denver, CO 80221, for $60 plus $5 shipping and handling. It is invaluable if you are going to shoot, invest, collect or play in the Remington double gun field. Remington supplied a number of different pattern Damascus barrels on these old doubles. A picture of their salesman’s sample of the various styles of Damascus available is shown on page 275 of Semmer's book.
Remington Arms Co. stamped the actual pellet counts of their test patterns on the rear barrel lug of their Model 1889 hammer doubles and their Model 1894 and 1900 hammerless doubles. If the number is three digits, that is the count, if the number is two digits a leading 3 is implied. From surviving hang-tags we know the standard load they used to target 12-gauge guns was 1 1/4 ounces of #8 going 511 pellets to the load. My 12-gauge KE-Grade Model 1900 is stamped 33 on the left and 24 on the right. That would be 333/511 = 65% left and 324/511 = 64% right, or about improved modified in both barrels. The chokes measure .027" in both barrels of that gun.
This is one of the best sources for parts -- http://www.wisnersinc.com/shotguns/remi ... ouble.html
If the gun is absolutely plain with no engraving, just "Remington Arms Co." stamped on the side of the frame it is an A-grade if a Model 1894. Model 1894 serial numbers were in the 100,000 range and often preceded by a P a Remington stock letter. Also perfectly plain was the lower priced Model 1900 with serial numbers in the 300,000 range, and often a stock letter of Q. These were also known as the K-grade.
A Model 1894 B-grade had just a bit of borderline engraving. As the grades went up C-, D-, and E-grade the engraving became more extensive, the stock wood and checkering finer, and the overall workmanship better. There is normally a grade letter stamped on the left side watertable, or on "bridge-frame guns" (usually 103,500 and lower serial numbers) on the bridge. Also, if you remove the trigger guard, the grade letter is often stamped in the wood after the serial number.
If a Remington Model 1894 is fitted with automatic ejectors the the written grade designation has a letter E added to it and if it has Remington Steel barrels an R or Ordnance Steel Barrels an O -- AE-grade (A-grade with ejectors and the regular Damascus barrels), AER-grade (A-grade with ejectors and Remington Steel barrels), BO-grade (B-grade with Ordnance Steel barrels) or CEO-grade (C-grade with ejectors and Ordnance Steel barrels). I’ve never seen these extra letters stamped on the gun’s watertable. In the Model 1900s things are reversed. Remington must have considered their Remington Steel barrels standard and appended a D if the gun was equipped with 2-blade Damascus barrels -- KD-grade or KED-grade.
You need to check out Charles G. Semmer's book "Remington Double Shotguns." It is available from the author 7885 Cyd Drive, Denver, CO 80221, for $60 plus $5 shipping and handling. It is invaluable if you are going to shoot, invest, collect or play in the Remington double gun field. Remington supplied a number of different pattern Damascus barrels on these old doubles. A picture of their salesman’s sample of the various styles of Damascus available is shown on page 275 of Semmer's book.
Remington Arms Co. stamped the actual pellet counts of their test patterns on the rear barrel lug of their Model 1889 hammer doubles and their Model 1894 and 1900 hammerless doubles. If the number is three digits, that is the count, if the number is two digits a leading 3 is implied. From surviving hang-tags we know the standard load they used to target 12-gauge guns was 1 1/4 ounces of #8 going 511 pellets to the load. My 12-gauge KE-Grade Model 1900 is stamped 33 on the left and 24 on the right. That would be 333/511 = 65% left and 324/511 = 64% right, or about improved modified in both barrels. The chokes measure .027" in both barrels of that gun.
This is one of the best sources for parts -- http://www.wisnersinc.com/shotguns/remi ... ouble.html
Re: M1894 questions
Thank you!
I'm going back to the store to take a closer look at it tomorrow. Based upon your description, it may actually be a mis-labeled M1900, and not a M1894. The amatuer restoration was a turn-off, but I'll take a closer look to see if it's still acceptable.
What's a typical value these days? Would $499 be too much?
I'm going back to the store to take a closer look at it tomorrow. Based upon your description, it may actually be a mis-labeled M1900, and not a M1894. The amatuer restoration was a turn-off, but I'll take a closer look to see if it's still acceptable.
What's a typical value these days? Would $499 be too much?
Re: M1894 questions
ljd 1100,
From your description of the gun stay away, does not matter if it is a 1894 or1900 it has too many problems. It is not orginal DO NOT BUY!!!!
Parts are hard to find..Find a good one that is right.Will cost you more money but worth it in the end the hunt is on, thats what I would do..
Thats my thought..I bought my first Remington Double over 35 years
ago..
From your description of the gun stay away, does not matter if it is a 1894 or1900 it has too many problems. It is not orginal DO NOT BUY!!!!
Parts are hard to find..Find a good one that is right.Will cost you more money but worth it in the end the hunt is on, thats what I would do..
Thats my thought..I bought my first Remington Double over 35 years
ago..
Re: M1894 questions
Man...you ain't kidding!2shooter wrote:ljd 1100,
From your description of the gun stay away, does not matter if it is a 1894 or1900 it has too many problems. It is not orginal DO NOT BUY!!!!
Parts are hard to find..Find a good one that is right.Will cost you more money but worth it in the end the hunt is on, thats what I would do..
Thats my thought..I bought my first Remington Double over 35 years
ago..
This morning, I took a much closer look at the gun in question. Forget it! Without delving into specifics that may identify this particular gun, I realized that it has been extensively (and poorly) modified. "Buggered" would be an appropriate description. The closer I looked, the worse it got. And for the record, it was a M1900 (SN: Q3XX,XXX).
The good news is that I am a big fan of Remington shotguns (especially the 1100, 870, and 11-48 series guns), and have finally discovered a SxS that interests me. I will order the book on Remington Doubles, do my research, and keep an eye out for a M1894 or M1900 in good, unmolested condition. The "hunt" is indeed on!
Thanks to everyone for their help.