Rolling Block strange markings

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papakeith
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:05 pm

Rolling Block strange markings

Post by papakeith »

Seeking help to provide any additional info on my new Rolling Block and the strange markings on various pieces. I have pictured below my No. 1 Rolling Block.
Characteristics are;
Bbl: 35 1/8" long breech to muzzle.
Overall: 51"
Calibur: 43 Spanish (based on barrel stamp, and breech ID of .52" & muzzle ID of .44"
Receiver: Original 1867 Receiver with straight ejector and screw locked firing pin in hammer.
SN Stamps: F57478 on Rcvr Tang, E57178 on TG Tang.
Prod. Codes: 209 stamped on Bbl, Rcvr Tang, TG Tang, and Butt Stock.
Now Here are the strange markings. There are 4 inline notches or slits cut into the following metal parts. Rcvr Tang, TG Tang, Barrel, Block, Hammer, forearm stock, forearm stock end cap, rear sight, each of 3 barrel bands and even the ejector.
On the Butt Stock, Butt stock plate, and butt stock sling loop plate, there are notches or slits cut but are 3 angled cuts, followed by two cuts making a "V" and then two vertical inline cuts.
Would anyone have any idea where this gun may have been made and who it may have been made for. Based on previous posts, the block with "winged" sides may have been initially made for a .58 cal. rifle. Also Calibur stamp of 10.6 on barrel would be correct for 43 Spanish. And big ?? who would have put these Marks on all the pieces. I've show a few parts with these cut marks for examples. I have reduced the pics so if not clear let me know and I can post larger ones if site allows.
Thank you for any comments or ideas.
Attachments
View of Open Block
View of Open Block
Block (Breech side).jpg (180 KiB) Viewed 5686 times
pic of receiver
pic of receiver
Rcvr left Side.jpg (155.13 KiB) Viewed 5686 times
Side view of Rifle
Side view of Rifle
Rifle on Bench.jpg (199.87 KiB) Viewed 5686 times
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papakeith
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:05 pm

Re: Rolling Block strange markings

Post by papakeith »

Here are pics of the block, hammer, & receiver tang showing the 4 cut marks. Like I mentioned in post, I've never seen marks like these on any posted picture of rolling blocks. Maybe these are well documented and "old news" so why no one ever brings them up. I'm a newbie when it comes to these old single shots. Got a Springfield Model 1895 Trapdoor first, and when I started researching, I read about the rolling blocks so decided I had to have one. Someday hopefully I can lay my hands on a dropping block.
My guesses on this gun are that it was made in Belgium for some SA or other country that got the standard 43 Spanish rifles. Mostly due to the Liege barrel, and what I think is a Belgium rear sight which looks like the ones installed on the Egyptian Rolling blocks. The Receiver a standard 2-line remington Mfgr & patent stamp on tang so thinking Remington supplied the complete receiver assembly. Also the stock Sling loop has weird markings which look Egyptian??. Sorry I could only post 3 pics at a time.
Attachments
Hammer view of 4 cuts.
Hammer view of 4 cuts.
Hammer showing 4 cuts.jpg (201.35 KiB) Viewed 5684 times
Rcvr Tang with 4 cuts and Production Code on uder side of Tang
Rcvr Tang with 4 cuts and Production Code on uder side of Tang
Rcvr Tang showing 209 & 4 cuts.jpg (190.1 KiB) Viewed 5684 times
4 cuts in edge of block
4 cuts in edge of block
Block showing 4 cuts.jpg (164.52 KiB) Viewed 5684 times
tjack
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:15 pm

Re: Rolling Block strange markings

Post by tjack »

You are correct that your rifle started "life" as a .58 caliber rifle. The hash marks you describe are consistent with Belgian rebuild purposes. I don't know if they are an inventory marking or tracking marking but they appear on all my Rolling Blocks that have been rebarreled by the Belgians. The are also seen on Belgian-made commercial small frame Rolling Blocks. The "10.6" is also a Belgian marking (they marked rebarreled Egyptian rifles with "11.1"). After the Franco-Prussian war either Prussia or France or both sold surplus Rolling Blocks to Belgium who rebarreled them into 11mm Spanish for the Central/South American market or, possibly Spain for one of their Carlists Wars.
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papakeith
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:05 pm

Re: Rolling Block strange markings

Post by papakeith »

Thanks for resolving that mystery Tjack. What ever those marks are for, it sure seems like they went to a lot of trouble. I'm sure they had a reason. I was thinking the gun may have been just re-barreled, but again seems like they went to more work to put the same production stamps of "209" on the barrel, both tangs, and the butt stock. I guess since they were re-selling the guns to some gov. they had to at least appear stick to a process. However since there are no National markings on the gun to identify ownership, these must have been a generic model they sold for cheapest prices to countries that couldn't afford to have customs stamps. Is the rear sight identified with any special model. Appears to be like the one used on the 43 Egyptian built at Belgium. Is the crown over the "L" on the side a Liege stamp? in the pic below?
Attachments
Egyptian style sight built by Liege ??
Egyptian style sight built by Liege ??
Rear Sight (side view) showin Stamp.jpg (165.44 KiB) Viewed 5675 times
tjack
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:15 pm

Re: Rolling Block strange markings

Post by tjack »

The crown/L is a Belgian inspectors mark. Very few military Rolling Blocks were marked with caliber let alone country of use. Since the rifles were rebarreled from .58 cal. to 11mm I suppose the Belgians had to make new rear sights. Unknown by me the significance of the "209".
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