Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
I posted this revolver some time ago while I was still doing my research before I made my deal.
That deal has since been made.
The photos below were taken after I took possession.
Manufactured 1863-65.
Very few fluted cylinder versions were produced.
Barrel Address;
MANUFACTURED BY REMINGTONS’,ILION, N.Y./ RIDER’S PT.
AUG.17. 1858, May 3, 1859.
That deal has since been made.
The photos below were taken after I took possession.
Manufactured 1863-65.
Very few fluted cylinder versions were produced.
Barrel Address;
MANUFACTURED BY REMINGTONS’,ILION, N.Y./ RIDER’S PT.
AUG.17. 1858, May 3, 1859.
Re: Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
When I was doing my research on these revolvers, before I made my deal, I realized that there were not many people that knew about them. (Particularly the fluted cylinder versions which had low three digit serial numbers.)
There is a well known author who suggested in one of his books that the cylinders on these revolvers were unmarked.
I was referred to a well known collector in Texas (since deceased) that was kind enough to send me photos of one of his fluted cylinder Remington-Rider revolvers with matching serial numbers on the barrel and cylinder.
This is the only matching example that I have seen.....or heard about.
(I think that he also had a few other matching examples.)
The example below shows this mismatched cylinder and barrel situation.
Possibly an assembly number etc.
Most dealers or auction houses that I ran across never made mention of cylinder numbers.
Mostly just barrel serial numbers and rarely a grip frame number.
Perhaps the cylinder on the revolver that they had was unmarked??
A sale on RIA of a later serial numbered revolver- S/n 3081. (Nov 2012)
Matching serial number on barrel and on the left side of the frame under the grip. This is a NON fluted cylinder-- later version.
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewit ... 7/lid/3114
There is a well known author who suggested in one of his books that the cylinders on these revolvers were unmarked.
I was referred to a well known collector in Texas (since deceased) that was kind enough to send me photos of one of his fluted cylinder Remington-Rider revolvers with matching serial numbers on the barrel and cylinder.
This is the only matching example that I have seen.....or heard about.
(I think that he also had a few other matching examples.)
The example below shows this mismatched cylinder and barrel situation.
Possibly an assembly number etc.
Most dealers or auction houses that I ran across never made mention of cylinder numbers.
Mostly just barrel serial numbers and rarely a grip frame number.
Perhaps the cylinder on the revolver that they had was unmarked??
A sale on RIA of a later serial numbered revolver- S/n 3081. (Nov 2012)
Matching serial number on barrel and on the left side of the frame under the grip. This is a NON fluted cylinder-- later version.
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewit ... 7/lid/3114
Re: Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
For what it's worth, I have two fluted cylinder double actions one with a matching cylinder and one without.
Bill
Bill
Re: Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
Bill,
Thanks for your response.
If you have taken off the left grip to check the grip frame S/n on your two Rider DAs did you see anything that looks like the number ’7’ shown on my photos above on the frame and cylinder?
Any chance of you posting some photos of your revolvers?
I would love to see them.
The matching DA revolver shown above belonged to J.D. Hofer.
David
Thanks for your response.
If you have taken off the left grip to check the grip frame S/n on your two Rider DAs did you see anything that looks like the number ’7’ shown on my photos above on the frame and cylinder?
Any chance of you posting some photos of your revolvers?
I would love to see them.
The matching DA revolver shown above belonged to J.D. Hofer.
David
Re: Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
This page is from Robert M. Reilly’s superb book published in 1970 that relates to the Remington-Rider New Model Belt Revolver.
His comments at that time suggested that the cylinders on these revolvers were unmarked.
This is why this subject is of interest to me.
Flayderman’s Guide is silent on this issue and I don’t own other reference books on Remington’s that might further address this subject.
Joseph Rider, Inventor
An 1890 article in the Newark Advocate quotes a piece from the Cincinnati Enquirer as saying that the wealthiest man in Newark at the time was Joseph Rider. His worth was estimated at $500,000 with large land holdings in Ohio, New York and Indiana. What Rider is best known for, however, are his inventions. He held over 100 patents in various fields, mostly in firearms.
Rider was born in Pennsylvania in 1817. He left home at 16 and moved to Wooster, Ohio, where he became a shoe-maker. During this time, he invented an adjustable shoe and boot pattern, which was still in use at his death. He moved to Newark in 1853 with his wife and five children, where he co-owned a jewelry store. This business was well-known enough to attract a contract to build a town clock for Ithaca, New York.
Rider soon began patenting improvements to firearms, and in 1858, he invented the double-action percussion revolver. For this, he was paid 12 brace of revolvers and 400 acres of Ohio land by Remington. This formed the basis of Rider's future land deals. He continued working with Remington for about 25 years. His improvements led to the Remington Rolling Block Rifle, which was called the "best single shot rifle ever produced and the most famous of any Remington firearm." It was manufactured for about 70 years.
Joseph Rider is buried in Cedar Hill Cemetery in Newark, with his wife and family. He continued working on inventions until about one month before his death in 1901. One of his diagrams is in the cornerstone of the Licking County Courthouse.
His comments at that time suggested that the cylinders on these revolvers were unmarked.
This is why this subject is of interest to me.
Flayderman’s Guide is silent on this issue and I don’t own other reference books on Remington’s that might further address this subject.
Joseph Rider, Inventor
An 1890 article in the Newark Advocate quotes a piece from the Cincinnati Enquirer as saying that the wealthiest man in Newark at the time was Joseph Rider. His worth was estimated at $500,000 with large land holdings in Ohio, New York and Indiana. What Rider is best known for, however, are his inventions. He held over 100 patents in various fields, mostly in firearms.
Rider was born in Pennsylvania in 1817. He left home at 16 and moved to Wooster, Ohio, where he became a shoe-maker. During this time, he invented an adjustable shoe and boot pattern, which was still in use at his death. He moved to Newark in 1853 with his wife and five children, where he co-owned a jewelry store. This business was well-known enough to attract a contract to build a town clock for Ithaca, New York.
Rider soon began patenting improvements to firearms, and in 1858, he invented the double-action percussion revolver. For this, he was paid 12 brace of revolvers and 400 acres of Ohio land by Remington. This formed the basis of Rider's future land deals. He continued working with Remington for about 25 years. His improvements led to the Remington Rolling Block Rifle, which was called the "best single shot rifle ever produced and the most famous of any Remington firearm." It was manufactured for about 70 years.
Joseph Rider is buried in Cedar Hill Cemetery in Newark, with his wife and family. He continued working on inventions until about one month before his death in 1901. One of his diagrams is in the cornerstone of the Licking County Courthouse.
Re: Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
Dave,
Unfortunately at this time I am unable to upload pictures from my camera to my computer. I had a hard drive crash several months ago and nothing has been the same since. I checked both of my revolvers and there is no markings on the grip frame other than the serial number.
In his book Remington Army and Navy Revolvers 1861-1888 the late Donald Ware wrote "Serial numbers are always found in three locations on army and navy models: on the left grip frame, on the bottom of the barrel, and on the bottom of the tab of the trigger guard. When serial numbers are encountered in other locations such as the rear of the cylinder or the hinge portion of the loading lever, it indicates to me that some hand fitting was required to make these parts function as they should, and the parts were marked to identify them to the revolver to which they were fitted." I see no reason why this would not be true for other model revolvers being manufactured by Remington during the same time period.
Bill
Unfortunately at this time I am unable to upload pictures from my camera to my computer. I had a hard drive crash several months ago and nothing has been the same since. I checked both of my revolvers and there is no markings on the grip frame other than the serial number.
In his book Remington Army and Navy Revolvers 1861-1888 the late Donald Ware wrote "Serial numbers are always found in three locations on army and navy models: on the left grip frame, on the bottom of the barrel, and on the bottom of the tab of the trigger guard. When serial numbers are encountered in other locations such as the rear of the cylinder or the hinge portion of the loading lever, it indicates to me that some hand fitting was required to make these parts function as they should, and the parts were marked to identify them to the revolver to which they were fitted." I see no reason why this would not be true for other model revolvers being manufactured by Remington during the same time period.
Bill
Re: Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
Hi Bill,
Your comment;
In his book Remington Army and Navy Revolvers 1861-1888 the late Donald Ware wrote "Serial numbers are always found in three locations on army and navy models: on the left grip frame, on the bottom of the barrel, and on the bottom of the tab of the trigger guard.
I see no reason why this would not be true for other model revolvers being manufactured by Remington during the same time period.
I just took the trigger guard off the fluted cylinder Remington-Rider DA-----and sure enough it is marked 819 on the trigger guard tab, same as on the barrel and grip strap frame.
Bill, you mentioned that one of your revolvers was all matching----does the matching number also appear on the cylinder?
What is the serial number on that revolver?
You also mentioned that your second revolver was not matching.
What is the difference between the serial numbers on the cylinder, frame and barrel on that revolver?
Thanks,
David
Your comment;
In his book Remington Army and Navy Revolvers 1861-1888 the late Donald Ware wrote "Serial numbers are always found in three locations on army and navy models: on the left grip frame, on the bottom of the barrel, and on the bottom of the tab of the trigger guard.
I see no reason why this would not be true for other model revolvers being manufactured by Remington during the same time period.
I just took the trigger guard off the fluted cylinder Remington-Rider DA-----and sure enough it is marked 819 on the trigger guard tab, same as on the barrel and grip strap frame.
Bill, you mentioned that one of your revolvers was all matching----does the matching number also appear on the cylinder?
What is the serial number on that revolver?
You also mentioned that your second revolver was not matching.
What is the difference between the serial numbers on the cylinder, frame and barrel on that revolver?
Thanks,
David
Re: Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
David,
I have serial number 438 which has the same number on the cylinder. The other one, serial number 116 has no number on the cylinder.
Bill
I have serial number 438 which has the same number on the cylinder. The other one, serial number 116 has no number on the cylinder.
Bill
Re: Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
Thanks Bill.
David
Which one is mis-matching?
It does not seem that either of them are?
David
Which one is mis-matching?
It does not seem that either of them are?
Re: Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
Let me clarify, I have two double actions revolvers with fluted cylinders. One with serial number 438 stamped under the barrel, on the left grip strap and on the trigger guard tab has a cylinder with the same number 438 stamped on the back. The other with serial number 116 stamped under the barrel, on the left grip frame and on the trigger guard tab has no number stamped on the cylinder.
Bill
Bill
Re: Remington-Rider DA New Model Belt Revolver 1863-65.
Thanks Bill.
Interesting that some fluted cylinders were marked with the matching serial number and some were not marked at all.
And some had mismatching serial numbers on the cylinder.
This tends to contradict the comment in Reilly’s book written in 1970 that the cylinders were unmarked.
I don’t know if Don Ware’s later book addresses this subject as I don’t have a copy.
This was a comment from Tim Prince at College Hill Arsenal Civil War Antiques on this subject.
He sold serial number 446 that had number 27 and 5 on the cylinder.
“I do not have any idea why the cylinders tend to be mismatched on these revolvers.”
A ‘bit’ of a mystery.
David
Interesting that some fluted cylinders were marked with the matching serial number and some were not marked at all.
And some had mismatching serial numbers on the cylinder.
This tends to contradict the comment in Reilly’s book written in 1970 that the cylinders were unmarked.
I don’t know if Don Ware’s later book addresses this subject as I don’t have a copy.
This was a comment from Tim Prince at College Hill Arsenal Civil War Antiques on this subject.
He sold serial number 446 that had number 27 and 5 on the cylinder.
“I do not have any idea why the cylinders tend to be mismatched on these revolvers.”
A ‘bit’ of a mystery.
David