Howdy all,need a little help. Does anyone know what the ORIGINAL FINISH on a 1949 121 is? Looking at buying one that has some scratches in the finish not the wood. I want to RESTORE the finish not refinish it.
Thanks for any help,
Mike
Remington 121 original finish?????
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The Gamemaster
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:04 am
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
Well - since RKW had not yet been invented, my guess would be some type of Lacquer type finish.
The finish on my dad's rifle of that era is - how can I put it - crappy at best.
The clearcoat on the stock has fallen off and even the stain on the wood has fallen off in places.
It appears to me as if they painted the stain on the stock and then applied some type of clear lacquer or Varnish over that.
Now my 1939 Remington .22 rifle - does not have any clear coat on the stock, just some type of varnish and the finish has not fallen off - but there is no gloss to the stock.
Although you want to finish it yourself back to OEM, my advice is for you to take it someplace and let a professional do it for you.
A good gunsmith can replicate the finish and make it into what you are looking for a lot easier then you can do it yourself.
The finish on my dad's rifle of that era is - how can I put it - crappy at best.
The clearcoat on the stock has fallen off and even the stain on the wood has fallen off in places.
It appears to me as if they painted the stain on the stock and then applied some type of clear lacquer or Varnish over that.
Now my 1939 Remington .22 rifle - does not have any clear coat on the stock, just some type of varnish and the finish has not fallen off - but there is no gloss to the stock.
Although you want to finish it yourself back to OEM, my advice is for you to take it someplace and let a professional do it for you.
A good gunsmith can replicate the finish and make it into what you are looking for a lot easier then you can do it yourself.
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
Ummm,don't know what RKW is. I've come to the conclusion that's it's a lacquer finish and is very easy to remove with lacquer thinner and just as easy to apply using DEFT LACQUER FINISH as i have RESTORED a few old MOSSBERG .22'S WITH THIS PROCESS Thanks for your advice,MikeThe Gamemaster wrote:Well - since RKW had not yet been invented, my guess would be some type of Lacquer type finish.
The finish on my dad's rifle of that era is - how can I put it - crappy at best.
The clearcoat on the stock has fallen off and even the stain on the wood has fallen off in places.
It appears to me as if they painted the stain on the stock and then applied some type of clear lacquer or Varnish over that.
Now my 1939 Remington .22 rifle - does not have any clear coat on the stock, just some type of varnish and the finish has not fallen off - but there is no gloss to the stock.
Although you want to finish it yourself back to OEM, my advice is for you to take it someplace and let a professional do it for you.
A good gunsmith can replicate the finish and make it into what you are looking for a lot easier then you can do it yourself.
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
RKW is what I believe some call the "Bowling Pin" finish; very hard and very shiny.
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
Hi Guys!
The finish was a clear "Duco" Lacquer supplied ...... of course by DuPont and has not been availabale for 20+ years. Somewhere in my boxes of "stuff" from DuPont I have the code number along with the codes of the stain that was used.
The other finish described is a "version" of boiled Linseed Oil! It's great stuff, easy to use, durable, pretty much weatherproof, and readily available. It was used on most U.S. military stocks but research by DuPont in the 50's determined that most gun buyers preferred a gloss or semi-gloss finish.
Hope this helps!
Jim Peterson
The finish was a clear "Duco" Lacquer supplied ...... of course by DuPont and has not been availabale for 20+ years. Somewhere in my boxes of "stuff" from DuPont I have the code number along with the codes of the stain that was used.
The other finish described is a "version" of boiled Linseed Oil! It's great stuff, easy to use, durable, pretty much weatherproof, and readily available. It was used on most U.S. military stocks but research by DuPont in the 50's determined that most gun buyers preferred a gloss or semi-gloss finish.
Hope this helps!
Jim Peterson
Jim Peterson
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
Hi Jim,thanks for the info. Couple of ??? Do you know if REM added a stain or a dye to the lacquer, i think they called it a TONER, or was the stain applied first? I restored a Mossberg .22 recently with DEFT LACQUER,ever hear of that product, and didn't use a toner so the color of the wood came out about a half shade lighter but it looks good.
I would post pics of the Mossy here but don't want to step on any REM toes
I would post pics of the Mossy here but don't want to step on any REM toes
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
Hi!
I can only tell you that the product DuPont sold for the topcoat was clear. Dupont did sell them stain as well, whether or not Remington added "toner" at the plant during the finishing process remains to be seen.......I simply don't know.
I'll tell you what I do know and that is there is a LOT of color variation on the Model 141 stocks which could be due to the wood, there is also some variation in the gloss but that can be from aging. Keep in mind that the 121/141 were made at the same time in the same plant. The "Duco" Lacquer product was nitrocellulose based and those type products "yellow" on aging so if you look at chips or flakes under a microscope they will appear to be amber in color with a reddish hue. Wow! That almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about.
I don't think it would matter much which product you use to refinish the stock, my stain of choice that comes close to the color used on the Model 14 is a Behlen product, Hickory is the color for whatever that's worth. Along with the info I have forgotten is the "glossometer" reading they used (now totally outdated) but I think it was in the 85-90 range so you have a lot of leeway. I doubt if the "Stock Police" are going to check your work nor will a good refinish affect the value.
For stripping the old stock I think you will find that Toluene (Toluol) will remove the old Lacquer with little effort but try not to get a snootfull in the process. After the factory finished the stock it would be rubbed out with very fine steel wool and a Dupont "Rubbing Lubricant" (a solvent based product that had a lot of wax in it, I even remember the code for it ....VQ-5484.
Have fun!
Jim
I can only tell you that the product DuPont sold for the topcoat was clear. Dupont did sell them stain as well, whether or not Remington added "toner" at the plant during the finishing process remains to be seen.......I simply don't know.
I'll tell you what I do know and that is there is a LOT of color variation on the Model 141 stocks which could be due to the wood, there is also some variation in the gloss but that can be from aging. Keep in mind that the 121/141 were made at the same time in the same plant. The "Duco" Lacquer product was nitrocellulose based and those type products "yellow" on aging so if you look at chips or flakes under a microscope they will appear to be amber in color with a reddish hue. Wow! That almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about.
I don't think it would matter much which product you use to refinish the stock, my stain of choice that comes close to the color used on the Model 14 is a Behlen product, Hickory is the color for whatever that's worth. Along with the info I have forgotten is the "glossometer" reading they used (now totally outdated) but I think it was in the 85-90 range so you have a lot of leeway. I doubt if the "Stock Police" are going to check your work nor will a good refinish affect the value.
For stripping the old stock I think you will find that Toluene (Toluol) will remove the old Lacquer with little effort but try not to get a snootfull in the process. After the factory finished the stock it would be rubbed out with very fine steel wool and a Dupont "Rubbing Lubricant" (a solvent based product that had a lot of wax in it, I even remember the code for it ....VQ-5484.
Have fun!
Jim
Jim Peterson
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
I think you will find that amber Bulls Eye shellac applied with an air brush gives an authentic "looking" finish.
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
Here's a few pics of my 121 restored. It was a lacquer finsh & came rihgt off with LT. i PUT 4 coats of DEFT Lacquer Finish on it & this is what i got. Remember,when you remove the topcoat you will lose 1/2 to 1 shade in color in the wood do to me not useing TONERS in the topcoat.
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
Nice work. That really looks good.
I have to ask...is the scope functional like that? It seems to be set back a long ways.
I have to ask...is the scope functional like that? It seems to be set back a long ways.
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
Thanks for looking. Yes the scope is functional,it's an old Weaver B-6 thought it looks period correct to the rifle.
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remington600
- Posts: 701
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:27 pm
- Location: High Ridge Missouri
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
Rickster wrote:Nice work. That really looks good.
I have to ask...is the scope functional like that? It seems to be set back a long ways.
Yes, I agree the scope looks set way far back.
Re: Remington 121 original finish?????
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I'm going to disagree with the critics about the scope positioning........with qualifications.
I think it depends on the eye relief of the scope and how the shooter mounts the stock to his cheek. Also, that is an OLD scope and the positioning of the adjusting turrets sort of limits the location of how/where it can be placed on the rifle.
I have most of the scopes on my rifles positioned so that my head is in a pretty much vertical position with my body when I mount my rifles to my cheek. Years ago I became aware that "crawling the stock" (to look through a scope) is the wrong way to do it......for ME.
By the way, that's a nice looking gun. I have one, too, but I think I'll leave the finish as-is. The stock has some flaking, but doesn't look bad enough to refinish.
Den
I'm going to disagree with the critics about the scope positioning........with qualifications.
I think it depends on the eye relief of the scope and how the shooter mounts the stock to his cheek. Also, that is an OLD scope and the positioning of the adjusting turrets sort of limits the location of how/where it can be placed on the rifle.
I have most of the scopes on my rifles positioned so that my head is in a pretty much vertical position with my body when I mount my rifles to my cheek. Years ago I became aware that "crawling the stock" (to look through a scope) is the wrong way to do it......for ME.
By the way, that's a nice looking gun. I have one, too, but I think I'll leave the finish as-is. The stock has some flaking, but doesn't look bad enough to refinish.
Den