121 Fieldmaster - Unusual barrel rollmark
121 Fieldmaster - Unusual barrel rollmark
I have been picking up a few of these lately and one has a rollmark of Remington Arms Co. Inc. Remington Ilion Works, Ilion N.Y. Barrel date code is XTT (December 1948). All my other Remingtons manufactured between 1930 and 1972 including my other 121's do not include the words "Remington Ilion Works." Was this a single year thing, and do those words appear on other models? Thanks
Hi rsvirem,
I will give you my opinion on the question. I have an early 121 PB date code, 1933, that has the roll mark same as the late Model 12. That is with the Ilion Works and patent DATES. So they used that roll mark on the early 121 barrels when they were made and before they were paired up with a receiver. My later 121s have the patent NUMBERS and do not have the "Ilion works" words. The year 1948 was near the end of the 121 production and I believe an early barrel surfaced and was used on your gun and possibly others. If your gun had the barrel replaced in 1948, then the date code would would have a "3" behind and next to it. Hope this helps.
I will give you my opinion on the question. I have an early 121 PB date code, 1933, that has the roll mark same as the late Model 12. That is with the Ilion Works and patent DATES. So they used that roll mark on the early 121 barrels when they were made and before they were paired up with a receiver. My later 121s have the patent NUMBERS and do not have the "Ilion works" words. The year 1948 was near the end of the 121 production and I believe an early barrel surfaced and was used on your gun and possibly others. If your gun had the barrel replaced in 1948, then the date code would would have a "3" behind and next to it. Hope this helps.
m/121 MARKINGS
The early Model 121s did have the Ilion Works stamp on the barrel. Most of my rifles are not available right now, but the Ilion Works stamp appears to be pre-war. I found several from 1936 and one from 1938 that were so stamped. 1954 was the end of production.
I don't know about the other models.
John Gyde
I don't know about the other models.
John Gyde
Yes, it does have a "3" stamped after the date code. It also has the letters LLP neatly stamped under the date code. So is this a replacement barrel, or a old barrel that they had on hand when it was assembled? The serial number is 57356.
I also have a recently purchased model 12 with the same "Remington Ilion Works" stamp along with the Pederson patients and a date code of "PU" (June '27). The PU code is very appropriate for this particular model 12
Edit add - Found it, in Eugene Myszkowski's excellent book "Remington Autoloading Rifles". "If the rifle had been returned to the factory for service it will have a date code (month year letters) 3 
(customer repair)and the customer repair inspector character stamped ahead of the original final inspector character. In this case the letters "LLP", prehaps the initials of the repairman?
Soo... I guess I may have an early 121 with a barrel that was replaced in 1948 and so stamped at the time? I have a new still in the wrapper model 550-1 barrel that has no date code stamp, so, again I'm guessing that they left barrels unstamped until they were actually used.
I also have a recently purchased model 12 with the same "Remington Ilion Works" stamp along with the Pederson patients and a date code of "PU" (June '27). The PU code is very appropriate for this particular model 12
Edit add -
Found it, in Eugene Myszkowski's excellent book "Remington Autoloading Rifles". "If the rifle had been returned to the factory for service it will have a date code (month year letters) 3 (customer repair)and the customer repair inspector character stamped ahead of the original final inspector character. In this case the letters "LLP", prehaps the initials of the repairman? Soo... I guess I may have an early 121 with a barrel that was replaced in 1948 and so stamped at the time? I have a new still in the wrapper model 550-1 barrel that has no date code stamp, so, again I'm guessing that they left barrels unstamped until they were actually used.
Hi rsv1rem, Not so, I dont believe you have a replaced barrel. Now that you have the 3 after a date code, that is when it was repaired. The other date code of LL is the date the gun was made, Feb, 1942, which is in line with your serial number. The P is likely the code of the assembler, and there may be a symbol or letter in front of the LLP which would be the final inspector code. Now if the barrel would have been replaced in 1948, then the initial date code would be missing. It is likely that the repair in 1948 was other than barrel replacement.
The date code is stamped on the gun after or at final inspection. The roll marked address/patent numbers is put on before the barrel is mated with a receiver, so it is possible to get an older barrel with a later receiver. But in your case I believe that the Ilion Works wording is normal for your serial number.
The date code is stamped on the gun after or at final inspection. The roll marked address/patent numbers is put on before the barrel is mated with a receiver, so it is possible to get an older barrel with a later receiver. But in your case I believe that the Ilion Works wording is normal for your serial number.
M/121
I believe that the "3" will be stamped with a new barrel code indicating when the repair was done??? Mine appear to indicate this. The barrel code was stamped during final assembly so the lack of a code on your 550 barrel means it was never installed at the factory. I can't shed any light on the barrel code you indicated.
John
John
Let me see if I understand this:
This Fieldmaster Serial # 57356 with a barrel date code XTT3 over LLP and with a barrel rollmark of REMINGTON ARMS CO. INC. REMINGTON ILION WORKS, ILION NY
MADE IN U.S.A. US PATENTS 1481.638-1.628.548-1.682.704
was made in February 1942 and had a factory repair other than a barrel replacement in December 1948. The XTT3/LLP stand alone, but there is a proof/inspection mark on the right side of the barrel.
The undated 550-1 barrel is new never installed and verifies the fact (in my mind) that Remington did not date code their rifles until final assembly rather than stamping the date when the barrel itself was made. This is important to Collectors of Curio & Relics as it dates the manufacture of the complete rifle in qualifying it under the BATFE’s 50 year rule. Or - it could be that undated replacement barrels were simply offered to Gunsmiths, and they actually did date stamp the barrel when made??John??
It does seem odd to me though that Remington would date stamp the barrel over existing blueing.
This Fieldmaster Serial # 57356 with a barrel date code XTT3 over LLP and with a barrel rollmark of REMINGTON ARMS CO. INC. REMINGTON ILION WORKS, ILION NY
MADE IN U.S.A. US PATENTS 1481.638-1.628.548-1.682.704
was made in February 1942 and had a factory repair other than a barrel replacement in December 1948. The XTT3/LLP stand alone, but there is a proof/inspection mark on the right side of the barrel.
The undated 550-1 barrel is new never installed and verifies the fact (in my mind) that Remington did not date code their rifles until final assembly rather than stamping the date when the barrel itself was made. This is important to Collectors of Curio & Relics as it dates the manufacture of the complete rifle in qualifying it under the BATFE’s 50 year rule. Or - it could be that undated replacement barrels were simply offered to Gunsmiths, and they actually did date stamp the barrel when made??John??
It does seem odd to me though that Remington would date stamp the barrel over existing blueing.I am sure that the date code stamping is put on the gun at final inspection just prior to sending to shipping and the gun is certainly blued. As far as the LLP is concerned, it is a bit unusual to have a letter "P" for a inspector or assembler code, but I have seen one or two. It is usually a symbol. I looked at some of my 121s and have#30xxx with PH- 1939, 36xxx with CJ- 1940 and 80xxx with ERR-1946. Your number of 57xxx would seem to fall in at about 1942 as the LL would imply. So I think it is a pretty good guess that LL is a date code. I have never seen any initials put on by the inspectors. I had an error in my earlier comment about a PB date code for 1933. It was PH, the 121 only was introduced in 1936.
I once tried to catalog Remington's proof/inspection marks using my 40+ Remingtons as a data source. Gave it up as a lost cause. The 121 in question has a canted fluer de lie that is quite attractive and unique as I have not seen another like it. Myszkowski characterizes them in his book as "arrows, hearts, cross, stars" etc. Maybe John's and Roy's new book will offer some help!! but no blame if it doesn't, as I said I gave up on the task myself.
Edit add. Forgot to thank both of you for your help regarding this thread. Researching and digging out rifles can be a job, but an enjoyable one I'm sure. I learned a lot. Thanks again - Bob
Edit add. Forgot to thank both of you for your help regarding this thread. Researching and digging out rifles can be a job, but an enjoyable one I'm sure. I learned a lot. Thanks again - Bob