Rolling Block No.1 sporter

[steveborst]

I am new to the Remington Society forum.
I have just recieved a rifle that I believe to be a Remington Rolling Block No. 1 Sporter.
I am not certain what I have as there are no markings on the rifle identifying it as a Remington. I have matched it to pictures and I am quite sure it is however. The only markings on this rifle are the patent numbers on the left front of the side of the reciever. The serial number appears on the back of the lower tang. The number is 4485. I can find no numbers on the barrel that identify what the caliber is.
The barrel is octogon and is 26 inches long. The rifle is all original and is certainly an 1800's vintage gun.
I hope someone can give me some insight as to what this rifle is.

Thanks-Steve

[Yellowhouse]

Does the barrel have E. Remington & Sons or Remington Arms stamped on the top flat. If not, its probably a replacement.

[marlinman93]

Look just in front of the forearm on the bottom flat for the caliber marking.
26" is an unusually short barrel for a #1 Sporter, but could be factory special order. Measure the thickness of the receiver side to side with dial calipers and post the measurement here. Not huge differences between a #1 and a #1 1/2 to the untrained eye, but the dimension will tell the story.
One other thing! Is the lower tang much longer than the upper tang, or the same length?-Vall

[steveborst]

The patent dates are as follows:May 3 1864, May-June11, Dec 1, 1872, Sept 1872.
The patent numbers appear on the left front side of the reciever.
There is no number on the bottom of the barrel.
There is nothing on the top tang.
The bottom tang is about 3/4 of an inch longer than the top tang.

Steve

[marlinman93]

Most of that info is generic to both the #1 and #1 1/2, except the last thing! The longer lower tang clinches it as a #1 Sporter. #1 military, and all other sporting models did not have the longer lower tang. You've got a great old Rem. #1 alright!

[steveborst]

Thank you for your input. Do you have any suggestions as to how I determine the caliber?
I realize the value is difficult to determine without seeing the rifle. I would rate the rifle in 70% condtion. Any guess on a range of values?

Steve

[marlinman93]

Pretty hard to estimate a value without any info, or pictures. Caliber is easy! Just cast the chamber with Cerrosafe and then take measurements. Brownells sells it, and instructions on how to use it. If you can send me good pictures, I'll see if I can assist.
I bought one marked ".44S" which is the old .44-77 Re. & Sharps Bottleneck. It has a extra heavy full octagon 34" barrel, single set trigger, and pretty much no finish, but sharp clean metal and wood. I gave $1200 for it a couple years ago, and thought I did very good.

[Yellowhouse]

Curious about one thing. Is your barrel marked on the top flat E. Remington or Remington Arms?

And Marlinman93 practically stole that rifle but when you find a deal like that you gotta do what you do. I've only seen 3-4 sporters in gunshows the last 20 years and two of those were rimfires. I jumped on the first one I came across although it is a plain jane 44-77 without the R&R sight & ST. And I paid a whooooooooole lot more than Marlinman93. But, I don't regret it and it will only, hopefully, appreciate in value. Maybe I can stumble across another dirt cheap and do cost averaging! I wish!

Good luck and keep us posted.

[marlinman93]

Curious about one thing. Is your barrel marked on the top flat E. Remington or Remington Arms?

And Marlinman93 practically stole that rifle but when you find a deal like that you gotta do what you do. I've only seen 3-4 sporters in gunshows the last 20 years and two of those were rimfires. I jumped on the first one I came across although it is a plain jane 44-77 without the R&R sight & ST. And I paid a whooooooooole lot more than Marlinman93. But, I don't regret it and it will only, hopefully, appreciate in value. Maybe I can stumble across another dirt cheap and do cost averaging! I wish!

Good luck and keep us posted.

Yep! I heard about this one on a Friday night, with 30 minutes left before the store closed, and 30 miles of freeway to negotiate during rush hour! I was going to wait until Sat. AM, but I figured it might just go away if I did! I made it just before the owner was locking up and grabbed it!

[marlinman93]

More details please Matt! What is a "transformation military"? Was this a civilian model that was reworked to military, or what?-Vall

[marlinman93]

Thanks so much for the great info! I seem to remember something about Remington converting guns after the War in Alden Hatch's book, "Remington Arms In American History". Your post joggged my memory, but I need to go back and read it again, as I don't think the author described exactly what Rem. did in these contracts.-Vall

[Yellowhouse]

Vall, maybe this was what De Haas was referring to when he said some early military rifles had the longer lower tang. Yeah, I know he was smoking something at one point but he may have gotten this right

[marlinman93]

Vall, maybe this was what De Haas was referring to when he said some early military rifles had the longer lower tang. Yeah, I know he was smoking something at one point but he may have gotten this right

From what Matt has shown, I believe DeHaas was correct about the early military and Sporting actions. Never seen a 1 1/2 with a long tang, so I still believe he was incorrect by including them as having longer lower tangs on early ones. My #1 1/2 is a 5xx serial number, and it has equal length tangs, as have all the others I've seen.-Vall

[Longknife]

SharpShtr, I have seen these RB conversions and always wondered where to get those huge cartridges?? They would have to be a BLAST to shoot, How much powder will they hold and what is the bullet weight?