Identification for Rifle/Caliber

[RaHarmakis]

Hey Folks

I have inherited a Rolling block, but I'm unclear as to what it actually is and what caliber ammo it is looking for.

It does not appear to have any caliber stamps that I can see.

23 inch Barrel, bore appears to be just under 1/2 inch. It does have a bayonet lug as well

Full Picture of the gun

FA Full Shot.jpg (7.23 MiB) Viewed 384 times

Cartouche of some sort stamped in the wood

Close up of the action

FA Close Up.jpg (7.37 MiB) Viewed 384 times

There are matching R Stamps on the barrel and body

Matching R Stamps

FA R Stamps.jpg (7.97 MiB) Viewed 384 times

Both barrel bands had a Crown Stamp

Crown on the Barrel Bands

FA Barrel Band Stamp.jpg (7.36 MiB) Viewed 384 times

The large patent/info stamp is pretty faded out.

Large patent Stamp

FA large stamp.jpg (8.1 MiB) Viewed 384 times

And lastly I did get a chamber cast done, with measurements in mm's

Chamber Cast Measurements in mm

FA Case Mold measurments mm.jpg (449.09 KiB) Viewed 384 times

Any information you could note based on the photos would be very much appreciated.
I can try to get better photos if needed, or of other areas.

[marlinman93]

Need one more measurement to take a guess. Need the neck diameter, and groove diameter to know the caliber.
At 1.547" length case I don't offhand know what cartridge it could be since it doesn't match any I know of for standard Rolling Block military cartridges?

[tjack]

Also include the base diameter of the chamber cast. Seems to have a very short case for a black powder military cartridge.

[marlinman93]

Also include the base diameter of the chamber cast. Seems to have a very short case for a black powder military cartridge.

I doubt it's a black powder era rolling Block. Likely a later smokeless powder variant.

[Mainspring]

3.4 shoulder and a 3.7 neck? Double check the dims please.

A pic of the cast next to dims helps also.

[tjack]

RaHarmakis,

Your rifle (carbine) is/was probably chambered for the 11 mm Spanish cartridge or the 11 mm Egyptian cartridge, neither of which is interchangeable. During the black powder rifle period, both Remington and Hartley and Graham were very accommodating to buyers. Various barrel lengths were options. Bayonet lugs were not usually applied to carbines but could be ordered with such. Basically, none of the black powder military rifles made by Remington had caliber markings on them. Not needed. The common soldier used the ammunition he was provided. Your rifle with the 23 inch barrel would be a carbine, those with about 26 inch barrel would be what we call a muskatoon and rifles were equipped with 30+ inch barrels.
Be advised, a lot of years have passed since your rifle passed from government ownership and it is always possible that someone since then has altered the chamber to fit more available ammunition. This is why an accurate chamber cast is necessary it check your chamber to see if it deviates from the norm. If you are not going to shoot it, it does not matter.

[RaHarmakis]

Thanks All for the Advice. I may have to get another cast done to get the measurements you all suggested.

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Be advised, a lot of years have passed since your rifle passed from government ownership and it is always possible that someone since then has altered the chamber to fit more available ammunition.

Exactly what I was thinking. At first, I thought the OP had an
Egyptian .43 but the dimensions are not correct. I don't have
specs for the 11mm Mannlicher but a lot of rolling blocks im-
ported during the 1950's were re-chambered for this round
because at the time, large amounts of that ammo had been
imported and was cheap to buy. Rifles converted were usually
mark "11 MANN" with an electric engraving pencil.

Cheers!
Webb