I've got this double-barrel 12ga, and I'd sure like to know what it is. It's got the swirled barrel that looks like a damascus, but it's not like any damascus I've ever seen - it's swirled, but doesn't seem to have the pronounced strips that I've seen before, if it's damascus, it's really well done. Does anyone know? It's hammerless, marked Remington Arms, Ilion, NY USA on the top, and has a serial number 113605. Anyone know what model this is, what it's worth, and will it take standard 12ga shells, or is it a damascus? Also, just reading through some of the posts on the site here, I thought the front sight was plastic, but others have talked about it being ivory - is that true?
Thanks for the help,
-RA
1898? 1900? Anyone point me to a book to look up?
Shot Gun
From the serial number you have a an 1894 Model Remington double made in 1899 with Damascus barrels. It could be an Ivory site put on at the factory or later by a gunsmith. We do not evaluate guns since we can not see or handle them as to condition. We suggest you look it up in the latest copy of The Blue Book of Gun Values which you might find in a library or your local gunsmith or gun store. It will take standard 12ga. 2 3/4' shells but the chambers are probably bore 2 5/8" and it has nothing to do with the barrels being Damascus.
Jay Huber RSA
Jay Huber RSA
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Researcher
- Posts: 1080
- Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:06 pm
- Location: Washington and Alaska
Remington Arms Co. Model 1894
As Jay said, number 113,605 would be a Remington Model 1894, made in 1899. Two patents were issued on the same day, No. 528,507 pertaining to the milling of the frame, and No. 528,508 pertaining to the automatic ejectors, both to R.C. Fay and G.E. Humphreys.
If the gun is absolutely plain with no engraving, just "Remington Arms Co." stamped on the side of the frame it is an A-grade if a Model 1894. Model 1894 serial numbers were in the 100,000 range and often preceded by a P a Remington stock letter. Also perfectly plain was the lower priced Model 1900 with serial numbers in the 300,000 range, and often a stock letter of Q. These were also known as the K-grade.
A Model 1894 B-grade had just a bit of borderline engraving and a few patches of fine scroll. As the grades went up C-, D-, and E-grade the engraving became more extensive, the stock wood and checkering finer, and the overall workmanship better. There is normally a grade letter stamped on the left side watertable, or on "bridge-frame guns" (usually 103,500 and lower serial numbers) on the bridge. Also, if you remove the trigger guard, the grade letter is often stamped in the wood after the serial number.
If a Remington Model 1894 is fitted with automatic ejectors the the written grade designation has a letter E added to it and if it has Remington Steel barrels an R or Ordnance Steel Barrels an O -- AE-grade (A-grade with ejectors and the regular Damascus barrels), AER-grade (A-grade with ejectors and Remington Steel barrels), BO-grade (B-grade with Ordnance Steel barrels) or CEO-grade (C-grade with ejectors and Ordnance Steel barrels). I’ve never seen these extra letters stamped on the gun’s watertable. In the Model 1900s things are reversed. Remington must have considered their Remington Steel barrels standard and appended a D if the gun was equipped with 2-blade Damascus barrels -- KD-grade or KED-grade.
You need to check out Charles G. Semmer's book "Remington Double Shotguns." It is available from the author 7885 Cyd Drive, Denver, CO 80221, for $60 plus $5 shipping and handling. It is invaluable if you are going to shoot, invest, collect or play in the Remington double gun field. Remington supplied a number of different pattern Damascus barrels on these old doubles. A picture of their salesman's sample of the various styles of Damascus available is shown on page 275 of Semmer's book. Remington doubles that have barrels that look like Damascus ARE Damascus. Don't let any unscrupulous dealer tell you it is a pattern on fluid steel!
If the gun is absolutely plain with no engraving, just "Remington Arms Co." stamped on the side of the frame it is an A-grade if a Model 1894. Model 1894 serial numbers were in the 100,000 range and often preceded by a P a Remington stock letter. Also perfectly plain was the lower priced Model 1900 with serial numbers in the 300,000 range, and often a stock letter of Q. These were also known as the K-grade.
A Model 1894 B-grade had just a bit of borderline engraving and a few patches of fine scroll. As the grades went up C-, D-, and E-grade the engraving became more extensive, the stock wood and checkering finer, and the overall workmanship better. There is normally a grade letter stamped on the left side watertable, or on "bridge-frame guns" (usually 103,500 and lower serial numbers) on the bridge. Also, if you remove the trigger guard, the grade letter is often stamped in the wood after the serial number.
If a Remington Model 1894 is fitted with automatic ejectors the the written grade designation has a letter E added to it and if it has Remington Steel barrels an R or Ordnance Steel Barrels an O -- AE-grade (A-grade with ejectors and the regular Damascus barrels), AER-grade (A-grade with ejectors and Remington Steel barrels), BO-grade (B-grade with Ordnance Steel barrels) or CEO-grade (C-grade with ejectors and Ordnance Steel barrels). I’ve never seen these extra letters stamped on the gun’s watertable. In the Model 1900s things are reversed. Remington must have considered their Remington Steel barrels standard and appended a D if the gun was equipped with 2-blade Damascus barrels -- KD-grade or KED-grade.
You need to check out Charles G. Semmer's book "Remington Double Shotguns." It is available from the author 7885 Cyd Drive, Denver, CO 80221, for $60 plus $5 shipping and handling. It is invaluable if you are going to shoot, invest, collect or play in the Remington double gun field. Remington supplied a number of different pattern Damascus barrels on these old doubles. A picture of their salesman's sample of the various styles of Damascus available is shown on page 275 of Semmer's book. Remington doubles that have barrels that look like Damascus ARE Damascus. Don't let any unscrupulous dealer tell you it is a pattern on fluid steel!
Shotgun
Researcher really gave you a lot of correct info. Semmer's book is great and I missed telling you about it since I totally missed your question about a book. Maybe after all this info you will become a Remington double collector like me. Regards to Researcher and You. Jay Huber
Thanks for all the help!
Thanks for all the help! I'll look for the books described here, I had no idea they existed. I really appreciate it! It looks like it's an A grade since there's nothing else engraved or stamped that I can find. If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to send pictures, just let me know your e-mail address.
Thanks again!
-RA
Thanks again!
-RA
You can shoot damascus barrel guns - but need to keep to low pressure shells . That doesn't mean Wal-mart specials . You'll have to reload to under 6000PSI - or there abouts . Also the frames of guns this old are not intended for modern shells , but the same low presures . I shoot two Remingtons , a Parker , and two off name Belgium sxs's , all with damascus barrels . I will admit I have ruined one of my Remingtons , but that was because I loaded smokeless powder by mistake taking the pressure to 20,000PSI . Under normal low pressure reloads [ mine are 5500PSI ] there shouldn't be a worry with sound barrels . Paul