Original Remington Zouave

[Trail Boss]

Greetings,
I am hoping that someone can tell me more about this gun than I found in "Flayderman's," which was very little. It is a 1863 Remington "Zouave" or Harpers Ferry Pattern, dated 1863 on both lock and barrel. On the lockplate ahead of the hammer is the eagle with
REMINGTON'S
ILION, NY
directly under the eagle. A U.S. is located to the right of this, and there is an inspector's mark of P to the extreme right on the lockplate. The barrel is rifled with 7 lands and grooves. At the breech is: 1863 US
VP, with the US directly over the VP. The eagle proof is below and to the left of the VP. The inspector's mark of B.H. is on the left side of the bbl with STEEL to the right of these initials. On the underside of the barrel are the initials G.K.J., with the initial H under the tang, on the breechplug witness mark, and on the bottom of the barrel. "3H" is directly under the bolster on the barrel. H is also over the U.S. on the top of the brass buttplate. H is also on the nosecap. The initial P is on the brass patchbox lid, the brass triggerguard, the hammer, and the internal lock parts. On the brass barrel bands are the usual U, plus an A on the lower band and a B on the upper band, on the very bottom of each. Of course the barrel is blue and the lock is color case hardened. Any info you have on these guns, whether they were ever issued, etc., would be very much appreciated. This one has been used, and it looks like it could have "seen the elephant."

[JV Puleo]

The General consensus is that they were never issued. Most of those I've seen over the years were in from excellent to absolutely new condition. I believe that almost all were sold at auction to Francis Bannerman in 1901. Bannerman is responsible for the "Zouave" nickname. His catalog said it was a favorite of the Zouaves ... it was advertising hype. If a CW Zouave ever saw one it was at a GAR meeting 40 years after the war was over.

[Trail Boss]

Thanks for your input; however, I recently read that pieces of one were found on a battlefield in Georgia. In addition, new research shows that several hundred were supposedly issued to troops from New York and Pennsylvania, if I remember the states correctly. I also found the reference which states that Bannerman bought the "whole lot" in 1901, and many have presumed that the words "whole lot" meant all 10,000 rifles. James Whisker, a prolific gun writer, has come into the fray on the side that some were issued in 1864.

Not trying to sharpshoot you here, but I am just volunteering the info that I have found since I wrote the initial request.

I have also learned that the markings on the lockplate indicate that this one has the "alternate markings," which shows there was more than one type made. Normally, the US appears right below the eagle. Maybe the 7 groove barrel with the alternate markings were the first ones made?????? Just about all of the ones I have seen on line for sale (about 10) are in excellent, seemingly unused condition, and they seem to have the same inspector initials, which are different from the one I own. Some of the pictures on line were admittedly poor and unclear, so this is a general statement based on what I could see with "zoom."

I would love to know more about the "evidence" referenced in the top paragraph, as well as anything concerning all the various markings on the gun, grooves, etc. Thanks again - Trail Boss.

[JV Puleo]

My recollection is that the Bannerman sale listed the exact quantity bought in 1901 and the number is within a handful of the number delivered. I've read a very large number of original records of Ordnance sales of surplus arms and I have never seen a sale recorded that didn't specifically cite the exact number or guns involved, though I confess to not having read the original documents in this case. Ordnance bookkeeping was very precise.

As to one being found on a battlefield, I've a good friend with a wonderful Union belt plate dug at Gettysburg in the early 60s that is engraved "Gettysburg - July 3 & 4. 1863." Presumably it was dropped at one of the many veteran's reunions... so I don't think that finding something on a battlefield is always a slam-dunk certification.

I looked into this some time ago because I too was under the impression that a few were issued. In fact, I once sold one for a friend of mine that had come directly from the granddaughter of the veteran who supposedly carried it. It was a very convincing rifle, complete with sling, bayonet and scabbard and had unquestionably been in the family many years... but that doesn't mean the old CW soldier didn't buy it from Bannerman in 1902. The lady who sold it knew it was her grandfathers and knew what regiment he'd been in (it was a Connecticut outfit) but that doesn't mean he carried that rifle during the war though he may even have said he did. What I would really like to see, in order to believe this, is some unquestionable, dateable photography.

[SharpsShtr]

. . . I've read a very large number of original records of Ordnance sales of surplus arms and I have never seen a sale recorded that didn't specifically cite the exact number or guns involved, though I confess to not having read the original documents in this case. Ordnance bookkeeping was very precise. . .

JV,

Just out of curiosity, where do you find these Ordinance records at? I can see where some interesting facts could come from them.


Matt

[JV Puleo]

Ordnance sales were nearly always listed in the annual Report of the Chief of Ordnance. Original records are in the National Archives and I've also made use of the Springfield Armory records kept at the Waltham, Massachusetts regional office of the archives. There was a huge investigation into the sale of Ordnance Stores after the Franco-Prussian War... it runs to more than 900 pages and is interesting, if tedious to read. All of this material is part of the "Serial Set"... the official published records of the government. It isn't easy to access since you need a library that has the set (and it runs to several thousand volumes). The only way to access it on-line is through a library. I'll avoid going on about this too much, since I greatly resent the fact that this stuff is available to academics only. In my case, its paid for by the State University but residents aren't allowed to use it unless they go to the library... faculty members and students can access it from any computer.

That said, there is a huge amount of stuff out there. Regarding the Zouaves, I'd look up the footnote referring to them in John McAulay's book on CW rifles, it will give the NA citation, and go from there.