Model 11 Sportsman

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Eyedoc65
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:39 pm

Model 11 Sportsman

Post by Eyedoc65 »

Hello....and thank you for allowing me to join the group.
I have followed these forums for some time...however I do have a question I have not seen an answer for regarding the Remington Model 11 Sportsman.
A little background info on the gun.....( I can post pictures if desired ).
1) I own a Remington Model 11 Sportsman 12 gauge. My grandfather purchased it in 1948 and did not alter the gun in any way during his ownership. I inherited the gun in 1985 after his passing and have not altered it in any way since I have owned it.
2) Serial Number is #463176.....the same serial number is stamped on the barrel near the lug in the correct spot, on the Tang, on the Trigger Assembly, on the inside of the buttstock, and on the receiver. They all match.
3) The receiver has a stamped flaming bomb....says " The Sportsman " on the bolt....has a pheasant on the bolt side of the receiver....has a duck on the opposite side of the receiver....IT DOES NOT SAY " Military Finish " on the receiver.
4) The Barrel has a stamped flaming bomb....it is marked " CYL "....the date stamped on the barrel is " KL " which would be May 1942....there is the correct " REP " stamp....there is a BEAD front site ( NOT A RAMP FRONT SITE ).
5) The magazine tube has the correct magazine plug for a 3 shot Model 11 Sportsman ( looks like a pain to remove...never tried ).
6) The buttstock is checkered and has a "crossed cannon " stamp....IT DOES NOT HAVE an "FJA stamp "....the original BROWN Remington Buttstock plate is in place.
7) The Forearm is checkered and is correct for a 3 shot Model 11 Sportsman.
SO....the question comes in here.....
I have measured the barrel correctly ( muzzle to face of bolt when closed....barrel off gun....measured from muzzle end to correct spot on barrel on the other end )....any way you look at it this barrel is 19.5 inches long.
My understanding is that the two shortest barrel lengths offered for a Model 11 was 20 inches and 18.5 inches for the Police Model 11.
I have seen several Model 11 Sportsman's offered for sale over the years that say " Correct 19.5 inch barrel ".
So...are 19.5 inch barrels actually incorrect?....if so....and assuming ( maybe incorrectly on my part ) that because this barrel is marked " CYL " that it was originally 20 inches long....why would someone cut 1/2 an inch off of the barrel sometime between 1942 and 1948?
Appreciate the time and thank you in advance.
Researcher
Posts: 1080
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:06 pm
Location: Washington and Alaska

Re: Model 11 Sportsman

Post by Researcher »

There is no such thing. It is either a Model 11, a five shot gun. A Model 11 can have a plug in the magazine to reduce the capacity to comply with Federal Migratory Waterfowl regulations. Or it is a Sportsman, a three shot gun, introduced in 20-gauge in 1930 and 12- and 16-gauge in 1931.
Model 11 and Sportsman.jpg
Model 11 and Sportsman.jpg (27.18 KiB) Viewed 6164 times
1930 The Sportsman ad.jpg
1930 The Sportsman ad.jpg (284.13 KiB) Viewed 6164 times
Sportsman Ad June 1931 Field & Stream.jpg
Sportsman Ad June 1931 Field & Stream.jpg (66.59 KiB) Viewed 6164 times
Eyedoc65
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:39 pm

Re: Model 11 Sportsman

Post by Eyedoc65 »

Ok.....excuse the inconsistency.....Sportsman.
The length of the barrel is the source of my confusion on this 12 Gauge Sportsman.
I was under the impression that " Cyl " marked barrels were mostly of the 20 inch variety and was confused on why mine is definitely 19.5 inches.
If 19.5 inch barrels do not exist ( although I have seen some claim them to be " correct 19.5 inches " many times on gunbroker as well as gunsinternational)....and " CYL " marked barrels were 20 inches then my question is why would someone cut 1/2 an inch off of a 20 inch barrel?
Now if just because a barrel is marked "CYL " and could have originally been much longer than 20 inches and was cut down to 19.5 inches that makes more sense.
At the end of the day.....has anyone else seen a Sportsman 12 Gauge with a definitively correct 19.5 inch barrel?
Researcher
Posts: 1080
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:06 pm
Location: Washington and Alaska

Re: Model 11 Sportsman

Post by Researcher »

From the introduction of the Remington Autoloading Shotgun in 1905 into the mid-1930s, the choke offerings for Model 11 and later Sportsman were Full, Modified, and Cylinder. Remington's SKEET boring was added in the 1935 catalogs and Improved Cylinder first appears in the 1938 catalogs.

The few Remington catalogs that I have where they actually picture the Model 11R "Riot" Grade call for a 20-inch barrel and show the ramp base for the front bead. There was never a catalogued Sportsman R "Riot" Grade. I would suspect that once the Improved Cylinder choke was offered Remington had an excess supply of field style Cylinder bore barrels to whack to fill government contracts for Riot guns. All speculation on my part. Someone out there must know more about these WW-II government guns.
Eyedoc65
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:39 pm

Re: Model 11 Sportsman

Post by Eyedoc65 »

Researcher,

I had speculated the same thing about whacking the barrels...but probably no way to really tell now.
Some other military contract guns I have had over the years flew in the face of convention....I believe during WW2 the name of the game was to get equipment out as quickly as possible.
If I was pinned into a corner...I believe this barrel was cut sometime between 1942 and 1948....possibly by Remington or the military....possibly not.
I resigned myself to the fact that this barrel was cut to 19.5 inches incorrectly....then saw some ( What seemed like legimate numbers matching ) Miltary Marked Sportsman's for sale over the years touting " CORRECT 19.5 INCH BARREL "....and I started thinking maybe someone knows something I don't and Remington had a run in my gun's serial number range of 19.5 inch guns on a military contract.....probably wishful thinking on my part.
Anyway.....I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.
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