Hello all. First post here.
I just inherited my great-grandfather's Remington Autoloading Shotgun, or pre-model 11 (although, none of that is anywhere on the shotgun). The serial number (92,XXX) is consistent on the barrel and on the bottom of the receiver, next to the feed ramp. Based on a search, and after talking to Remington historical folks, turns out it's a 1910.
It's back together now, after a thorough breakdown and cleaning, but I'm concerned there are a few original-to-that-year parts that may be missing, and would like a little clarification (if anyone can) before ordering the suspected missing parts.
1. The steel friction ring is missing. I've seen a beveled one, and a flat one. Which went on the 1910 model?
2. According to one popular parts website, on the schematic, where the magazine tube (5-shot model) screws onto the receiver, there is listed a "forend guide ring" and accompanying set screw (different than the magazine tube set screw), which appear to be a sort of threadable bushing-type ring, sandwiched between the very outermost threaded portion of the receiver and the magazine tube.
I can feel a difference on the receiver's outermost threading that would allow a very shallow, and thin, bushing-type ring to be screwed into the receiver before the magazine tube is then screwed in, and a larger part of the bushing that the recoil spring (and/or steel friction ring) would sit against, and be set in place with a set screw.
This doesn't appear on the schematics for the Browning A-5 or the Savage/Springfield 720 or 745, and when looking at my 745B, there doesn't appear to be this extra space between the receiver and magazine tube; and in fact, the magazine tube on the pre-model 11 actually moves a little bit, as opposed to the tube on my 745B, which doesn't move at all.
Is this forend guide ring original to the 1910 model year, or did it come before, or after?
3. When the receiver was apart, there appeared to be evidence that the bolt and firing pin were hitting against the back of the receiver (sign of a square where the firing pin would've hit). I could find no evidence of a fiber cushion, and short of scraping the back of the receiver, there may or may not have ever been a rivet there.
I have read on several threads/forums, that the fiber cushion was added on or after 1911 when the model officially became a Model 11, due to heavier loads; but, I also read that someone who has a pre-model 11, that their shotgun actually came with the fiber cushion, even though it wasn't listed in the parts diagrams until significantly later.
Did the 1910 model actually come stock with the cushion and rivet?
I appreciate any and all help on this. Thank you.
Clarification of parts for pre-model 11
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Fowlgunner
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:44 pm
Re: Clarification of parts for pre-model 11
EddieS,
The steel friction ring on a Remington Autoloading Shotgun will have the flat or square base opposite of the beveled portion of the ring that accepts the brass friction brake.
As far as the Bolt Buffer and rivet I have a RAS with one but most do not. I have to assume that the one I have was fitted at a later date.
The earliest record that I know of that it is listed in the Remington Firearms Catalogues of the period is in the 1913-1914 Catalogue, but I do not have access to a 1912-1913 Catalogue.
The magazine tube screw on the early guns that I just re-examined just have a pilot nose on the end to fit a hole in the magazine tube so it is seated at the proper depth and does not back out due to use.
There is only a drilled and tapped hole that extends into the threading for the magazine tube no clamp or collar.
The markings on the inside of the receiver are most probably from a combination of things, namely a flat or over-compressed recoil and action spring and/or using heavier loads than the mechanism was designed for.
The earliest recommendations were for loads of 3 drams 1.125 oz of shot without the use of the friction ring and no greater than 3.25 drams 1.25 oz with the friction ring correctly installed.
Hope this helps,
Will
The steel friction ring on a Remington Autoloading Shotgun will have the flat or square base opposite of the beveled portion of the ring that accepts the brass friction brake.
As far as the Bolt Buffer and rivet I have a RAS with one but most do not. I have to assume that the one I have was fitted at a later date.
The earliest record that I know of that it is listed in the Remington Firearms Catalogues of the period is in the 1913-1914 Catalogue, but I do not have access to a 1912-1913 Catalogue.
The magazine tube screw on the early guns that I just re-examined just have a pilot nose on the end to fit a hole in the magazine tube so it is seated at the proper depth and does not back out due to use.
There is only a drilled and tapped hole that extends into the threading for the magazine tube no clamp or collar.
The markings on the inside of the receiver are most probably from a combination of things, namely a flat or over-compressed recoil and action spring and/or using heavier loads than the mechanism was designed for.
The earliest recommendations were for loads of 3 drams 1.125 oz of shot without the use of the friction ring and no greater than 3.25 drams 1.25 oz with the friction ring correctly installed.
Hope this helps,
Will
Re: Clarification of parts for pre-model 11
Thank you for the info, Will. My further research agrees with your findings.
Seems the dual-beveled friction ring was to accompany the introduction of the Cutts compensator, so, I'll be ordering a flat/beveled ring.
On the buffer, I found an old post from someone on this site with a 1910 year RAS who said his has the buffer, but it appears to be held in with adhesive, and not a rivet. I could assume it was possibly put in after production, like yours.
I found more info on the forend guide ring. It's brass, and has no threading to thread into/onto the receiver/magazine tube. It was designed for the Sportsman model only, and the set screw secures it in its position on the Sportsman-specific magazine tube into a partially drilled hole in the tube, similar to the hole that secures the tube into position on the receiver. So, the Sportsman model has both set screws: one for the receiver, and one for the forend guide ring, both going into the specific 2-shot magazine tube the same depth, and on the same side.
Again, thanks for the help!
-Eddie
Seems the dual-beveled friction ring was to accompany the introduction of the Cutts compensator, so, I'll be ordering a flat/beveled ring.
On the buffer, I found an old post from someone on this site with a 1910 year RAS who said his has the buffer, but it appears to be held in with adhesive, and not a rivet. I could assume it was possibly put in after production, like yours.
I found more info on the forend guide ring. It's brass, and has no threading to thread into/onto the receiver/magazine tube. It was designed for the Sportsman model only, and the set screw secures it in its position on the Sportsman-specific magazine tube into a partially drilled hole in the tube, similar to the hole that secures the tube into position on the receiver. So, the Sportsman model has both set screws: one for the receiver, and one for the forend guide ring, both going into the specific 2-shot magazine tube the same depth, and on the same side.
Again, thanks for the help!
-Eddie