i have what I think is an 1883 Remington SxS. the hammers are 1882 as pre Ramblings internet page showing pictures of the various years, most likely a grade 1 or 2. This gun has been handed down through 4 generations and is mentioned in the original owners will.
So, here is my questions:
Who can do a restoration job on this gun, although its worth is only sentimental, I want to bring it back to its original glory.
With a serial number of 16307 is it a 1882 or 1883 gun
its missing both its hammer springs, can these be made or bought?
1882 identification
Re: 1882 identification
According to Semmer's book Remington Double Shotguns, "In my opinion, the only thing that serves to identify a Model 1883 gun is the hammer design." So if you have 1882 hammers, you most likely have an 1882 gun. S/Ns do not help either as S/Ns for '82s & '83s are contained within the same block (1,000 - 17,000 ).
The #1 & #2 grades differ in barrel material. #1 grade use decarbonized steel while #2 grade have twist steel barrels and a bit better wood. Higher grades use laminated or damascus steel barrels and have various degrees of engraving, better wood etc.
I assume you are missing the main springs. I think they are the same for all Remington sidelocks. Start with Garland Jackson at 330-669-2138.
Bringing it back to original condition might be expensive and not worth the effort. What's the current condition? Is it shootable? If you do plan to shoot it I'd ONLY use black powder. The industry was starting to transition to smokeless powder about this time and I'm not sure that even Remington barrels of that era are up to the task. I'm sure others on the forum will be able to provide better information.
If it were mine I'd bring it back to safe shooting condition if possible and have it checked by a smith if you plan to shoot it, give it a good cleaning, maintain it with periodic cleaning/oiling and enjoy it.
Good luck
The #1 & #2 grades differ in barrel material. #1 grade use decarbonized steel while #2 grade have twist steel barrels and a bit better wood. Higher grades use laminated or damascus steel barrels and have various degrees of engraving, better wood etc.
I assume you are missing the main springs. I think they are the same for all Remington sidelocks. Start with Garland Jackson at 330-669-2138.
Bringing it back to original condition might be expensive and not worth the effort. What's the current condition? Is it shootable? If you do plan to shoot it I'd ONLY use black powder. The industry was starting to transition to smokeless powder about this time and I'm not sure that even Remington barrels of that era are up to the task. I'm sure others on the forum will be able to provide better information.
If it were mine I'd bring it back to safe shooting condition if possible and have it checked by a smith if you plan to shoot it, give it a good cleaning, maintain it with periodic cleaning/oiling and enjoy it.
Good luck
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Re: 1882 identification
Take it up to Grand Rapids, Michigan, to Bachelders for an opinion on a complete restoration.
http://www.mastergunmakers.com/
http://www.mastergunmakers.com/
Re: 1882 identification
From what little I can see of the barrel it appears you have a #1 grade gun. Looks like honest patina on the weapon.
Is the stock cracked or broken? Are the barrels dented? Are the bores clean & bright? Does it close tight?
Four generations!! - it's a keeper if for no other reason.
Is the stock cracked or broken? Are the barrels dented? Are the bores clean & bright? Does it close tight?
Four generations!! - it's a keeper if for no other reason.
Re: 1882 identification
well, here is my estimation of condition with your questions dieNusse1
Barrels are not dented or bent. The ribs above and below the barrels that hides the solder is old and loose at the end of the barrel. Stock is broke behind the triggers on one side, but its a non-structural chip and doesn't effect the function of the gun. Bores show signs of corrosive ammunition with pitting in the first half of the barrels, rear plate of the shotgun that supports the shells base is corroded as well with pits. The barrel locks up, but is loose.
I would love to shoot this gun, so my first goal is to get it shooting if possible. my next goal is to get it looking good as you are right, its a family heirloom and I want to be the 4th generation to shoot it, then my daughter will make it 5.
I think someone took the main springs out of the gun so it couldn't be fired, it wasn't my dad so I guess it probably was one of his siblings. its also missing a tumbler hammer screw. I've started looking for these items, I wonder if the 1889 mainsprings would work, I see they are more available then 1882.
It does have good patina and would not try to change that. needs some stock work.
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Barrels are not dented or bent. The ribs above and below the barrels that hides the solder is old and loose at the end of the barrel. Stock is broke behind the triggers on one side, but its a non-structural chip and doesn't effect the function of the gun. Bores show signs of corrosive ammunition with pitting in the first half of the barrels, rear plate of the shotgun that supports the shells base is corroded as well with pits. The barrel locks up, but is loose.
I would love to shoot this gun, so my first goal is to get it shooting if possible. my next goal is to get it looking good as you are right, its a family heirloom and I want to be the 4th generation to shoot it, then my daughter will make it 5.
I think someone took the main springs out of the gun so it couldn't be fired, it wasn't my dad so I guess it probably was one of his siblings. its also missing a tumbler hammer screw. I've started looking for these items, I wonder if the 1889 mainsprings would work, I see they are more available then 1882.
It does have good patina and would not try to change that. needs some stock work.
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First a question - the bore shown in your last photo looks large in relation to your hand. Is it a 12 or 10 Gauge?
In any event the gun is fairly rough. The barrel needs solder work. What's the barrel length?
I don't know what skills you have but replacing the chipped piece by the triggers should be easy after finding a piece of walnut you can match to the stock. Fitting and staining should make an almost invisible repair.
If you want to shot light loads pitting on the bolster face shouldn't be of any concern. Pitting in the bore on the other hand may be as well as a loose action is a different story. Have these checked by a smith if you don't feel comfortable.
Have you hand loaded ammo?
In any event the gun is fairly rough. The barrel needs solder work. What's the barrel length?
I don't know what skills you have but replacing the chipped piece by the triggers should be easy after finding a piece of walnut you can match to the stock. Fitting and staining should make an almost invisible repair.
If you want to shot light loads pitting on the bolster face shouldn't be of any concern. Pitting in the bore on the other hand may be as well as a loose action is a different story. Have these checked by a smith if you don't feel comfortable.
Have you hand loaded ammo?
Re: 1882 identification
It's a 12ga, hand is a little ways down the barrel.
Most my experience has been competition rifle shooting so reloading a rifle or pistol is easy, but I've never reloaded a shotgun shell or have the equipment. I know when to tap out, so I'll buy some rounds.
My wood skills are pretty good, I might try the stock work myself, I even think I could do the solder work after watching Larry Potterfield on youtube do one. But in reality I will probably pay someone not to do too much damage to the patina.
My real concern is the barrel Pitting, how much is too much. So I'll start looking for a good smith. I was hoping to find all the parts first and at least get the actions n working.
I think I found a left side mainspring, so I need a right side mainspring and hammer screw. I'll call garland tomorrow and see what he says.
Most my experience has been competition rifle shooting so reloading a rifle or pistol is easy, but I've never reloaded a shotgun shell or have the equipment. I know when to tap out, so I'll buy some rounds.
My wood skills are pretty good, I might try the stock work myself, I even think I could do the solder work after watching Larry Potterfield on youtube do one. But in reality I will probably pay someone not to do too much damage to the patina.
My real concern is the barrel Pitting, how much is too much. So I'll start looking for a good smith. I was hoping to find all the parts first and at least get the actions n working.
I think I found a left side mainspring, so I need a right side mainspring and hammer screw. I'll call garland tomorrow and see what he says.
Re: 1882 identification
Sounds like you're all set with the skills and experience needed.
As I don't think you're going to use the gun on a regular basis I would suggest you buy several brass shells and not attempt to use plastic. New shells are about a buck or so apiece and antique cases about the same (at least the ones I use). Old cases use large pistol or rifle primers while new ones may use 209s. The traditional volume ratio of black powder to shot is 1:1. Should be the same for BP substitutes.
I use 11 ga wads to form the column. I can sell you few to cover mailing cost if you like. Loading tools you can make yourself. Basically you'll need a dowel with a nail in the end to knock out the old primer, a second dowel to pack the wad column and a dipper to measure powder and shot plus wax or finger nail polish to seal the over shot wad. I picked up all my brass shells and old time loading tools at local estate and farm auctions and you might be able to do the same. Tools should also be available on eBay. I have several priming tools and may be willing to part with one. Price?
I'd load 7/8 or 1 oz loads which should keep the pressure down. Blanks would also work - you get the boom and smoke but no danger. I haven't seen your bores but they should be ok but I'd still consider having them checked.
Soap and water to clean the bores of BP residue.
Yes contact Garland. He makes various screws if he doesn't have an original. Seems like hammers and hammer screws get lost or broken the most. As I said before I think the main springs for all the side lock models are the same.
As I don't think you're going to use the gun on a regular basis I would suggest you buy several brass shells and not attempt to use plastic. New shells are about a buck or so apiece and antique cases about the same (at least the ones I use). Old cases use large pistol or rifle primers while new ones may use 209s. The traditional volume ratio of black powder to shot is 1:1. Should be the same for BP substitutes.
I use 11 ga wads to form the column. I can sell you few to cover mailing cost if you like. Loading tools you can make yourself. Basically you'll need a dowel with a nail in the end to knock out the old primer, a second dowel to pack the wad column and a dipper to measure powder and shot plus wax or finger nail polish to seal the over shot wad. I picked up all my brass shells and old time loading tools at local estate and farm auctions and you might be able to do the same. Tools should also be available on eBay. I have several priming tools and may be willing to part with one. Price?
I'd load 7/8 or 1 oz loads which should keep the pressure down. Blanks would also work - you get the boom and smoke but no danger. I haven't seen your bores but they should be ok but I'd still consider having them checked.
Soap and water to clean the bores of BP residue.
Yes contact Garland. He makes various screws if he doesn't have an original. Seems like hammers and hammer screws get lost or broken the most. As I said before I think the main springs for all the side lock models are the same.
Re: 1882 identification
just checked Midwayusa and they have all the supplies you talked about. brass shot shells are 2.5 in in length, so that will keep the powder volume and pressure low. Pistol primers for the shells will keep my supplies common, I'm not much of a shotgun shooter, but 25 brass shells for this will be worth it. I"ll use my redding press to prime and deprime if I can find a rim holder for the brass that fits.
this will be great if I get even one barrel working.
thanks again, I'll keep you posted on my success.
this will be great if I get even one barrel working.
thanks again, I'll keep you posted on my success.
Re: 1882 identification
Sounds as if you're all set. Good luck and enjoy!
Re: 1882 identification
I have another question, how do you tell if it's a 10ga or a 12ga? Is there some markings? After you asked I always assumed it was 12, but I measured the rim diameter and it came out .9, so it's well worn, and a 12 gauge she'll did fit with a little movement. Pictures to follow.
Re: 1882 identification
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Couple more issues. First at the muzzle a 10 ga will measure about 0.775 while a 12 ga 0.725. Measurement across the bolster for a 10 ga is 2 3/8" while a 12 ga will measure 2 5/16".
Also your picture shows damascus barrels so it appears to be a #3 grade. I see a 5 stamped on the barrel. Do the S/N of the barrels and action body agree?
The fit of the 12 ga shell seems loose.
Also your picture shows damascus barrels so it appears to be a #3 grade. I see a 5 stamped on the barrel. Do the S/N of the barrels and action body agree?
The fit of the 12 ga shell seems loose.
Re: 1882 identification
All numbers match right down to some of the smaller parts under the match lock, my concern was when I measured across the opening that the rim of the shell sides touch. This was .9, hence my concern that they might of been shooting 12 gauge shells out of a 10gauge gun.
Not sure where the bolster is.
In the right side the shell is tighter then the left. Tight enough I believed it was a 12, but the looseness of the left made me wonder if it wasn't corrosion buildup in the right side. But it was the .9 measurement that stumped me, I'm more then proficient with calipers since I'm an engineer and have used them for 30years.
Can you even shoot a 12 gauge shell out if a 10?!
Any other pictures you might want to see to help?
Not sure where the bolster is.
In the right side the shell is tighter then the left. Tight enough I believed it was a 12, but the looseness of the left made me wonder if it wasn't corrosion buildup in the right side. But it was the .9 measurement that stumped me, I'm more then proficient with calipers since I'm an engineer and have used them for 30years.
Can you even shoot a 12 gauge shell out if a 10?!
Any other pictures you might want to see to help?