I have a Remington Model 1889 12ga Grade 1 with a serial number in the 241,300 range. Could anyone tell me when it was made and what length the chambers should be? I stuck a small screwdriver in until it touched the end of the chamber and measured it on a ruler and it looked to be about 2 3/4", but I've heard that it is probably 2 5/8". I didn't know that there was a 2 5/8" 12ga, just 2 1/2" and 2 3/4".
Funny story, I sold the gun on Gunbroker and my heart sank when it got a bid. I really didn't want to part with it. After the auction the winner called me up and told me that his wife had been in an automobile accident and he could no longer afford to purchase it. I was of course concerned for his wife's safety but totally cool with him backing out of the auction. Fortunately she's ok but the $1000 deductible put a real ding in their budget.
Looks like this one is meant to stay with me. Here is a link to the closed auction with pics. The full serial number is visible in the pics.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =537251810
Remington 1889 Date of Manufacture and chamber length
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frankiesaysrelax
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Researcher
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Re: Remington 1889 Date of Manufacture and chamber length
Paper Shot Shell Lengths
In reviewing old Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogues and price lists, the first time I see mention of extra length paper shot shells is in the 1889 catalogue, before they were offering any smokeless powder shells. Smokeless powder begins appearing in the 1891 catalogue. After the introduction of smokeless powder loads the first catalogue I’ve found to offer longer paper shells is 1895 where they offer 10-gauge shells in 2 5/8 and 2 7/8 inch lengths, 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch lengths, while 16-gauge is just 2 9/16 inch and 20-gauge just 2 1/2 inch. In the September 1896 catalogue they offer 12-gauge paper "Smokeless" shell in lengths up to 3-inch. All brass 10- and 12-gauge NPEs were offered up to 3 1/4 inch length. By the April 1899 UMC Catalogue things are really taking off and they've added 2 3/4 and 2 7/8 inch lengths to both 16- and 20-gauge offerings, and the 3 1/4 inch 12-gauge length in their "Trap" shell. By the May 1900 UMC catalogue the 3-inch 16- and 20-gauge length is being offered in their salmon colored "Smokeless" shell and their green colored "Trap" shell.
That pretty much covers paper shot shell lengths and when they appeared. So, by 1900 we had paper 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch lengths; 16-gauge shells in 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths; and 20-gauge shells in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.
Most Remington Arms Co. 12-gauge doubles were chambered for the 2 5/8 inch shell. A very few may have been ordered for the longer shells, but that is much more likely to be restricted to the higher grade "made to order" guns.
From the 1890s into the early 1920s, these longer shot shells didn't carry a heavier payload than one could get in a 2 3/4 inch 12-gauge shell, just more/better wadding, which many serious Pigeon shooters believed to be an advantage.
In reviewing old Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogues and price lists, the first time I see mention of extra length paper shot shells is in the 1889 catalogue, before they were offering any smokeless powder shells. Smokeless powder begins appearing in the 1891 catalogue. After the introduction of smokeless powder loads the first catalogue I’ve found to offer longer paper shells is 1895 where they offer 10-gauge shells in 2 5/8 and 2 7/8 inch lengths, 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch lengths, while 16-gauge is just 2 9/16 inch and 20-gauge just 2 1/2 inch. In the September 1896 catalogue they offer 12-gauge paper "Smokeless" shell in lengths up to 3-inch. All brass 10- and 12-gauge NPEs were offered up to 3 1/4 inch length. By the April 1899 UMC Catalogue things are really taking off and they've added 2 3/4 and 2 7/8 inch lengths to both 16- and 20-gauge offerings, and the 3 1/4 inch 12-gauge length in their "Trap" shell. By the May 1900 UMC catalogue the 3-inch 16- and 20-gauge length is being offered in their salmon colored "Smokeless" shell and their green colored "Trap" shell.
That pretty much covers paper shot shell lengths and when they appeared. So, by 1900 we had paper 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch lengths; 16-gauge shells in 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths; and 20-gauge shells in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.
Most Remington Arms Co. 12-gauge doubles were chambered for the 2 5/8 inch shell. A very few may have been ordered for the longer shells, but that is much more likely to be restricted to the higher grade "made to order" guns.
From the 1890s into the early 1920s, these longer shot shells didn't carry a heavier payload than one could get in a 2 3/4 inch 12-gauge shell, just more/better wadding, which many serious Pigeon shooters believed to be an advantage.
Re: Remington 1889 Date of Manufacture and chamber length
Your '89 was made in early 1904.
Several people have reamed chambers to 2 3/4" although, given thinner plastic case walls vis-a-vis paper cases, shooting low pressure loads should not pose any problems.
Several people have reamed chambers to 2 3/4" although, given thinner plastic case walls vis-a-vis paper cases, shooting low pressure loads should not pose any problems.
Re: Remington 1889 Date of Manufacture and chamber length
Researcher, thanks for the brief history of shotshells. Must have been a mess in the early days before standardization.
As I have several cases of brass 12 and 10 GA hulls which I use to load BP I have a question about the meaning of NPEs.
As I have several cases of brass 12 and 10 GA hulls which I use to load BP I have a question about the meaning of NPEs.
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Researcher
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Re: Remington 1889 Date of Manufacture and chamber length
NPEs = New Primed Empties.
For the first decade of the 20th Century the NPEs UMC had a different name on them then the Nitro Club, Arrow and Trap shells they sold loaded, like Majestic, Union, etc. and the names were different on the NPEs for bulk smokeless powder and those for dense smokeless powder. Winchester did a similar thing where their factory loaded shells were head-stamped WINCHESTER REPEATER or WINCHESTER LEADER while the NPEs they sold were head-stamped 1901 LEADER or 1901 REPEATER.
For the first decade of the 20th Century the NPEs UMC had a different name on them then the Nitro Club, Arrow and Trap shells they sold loaded, like Majestic, Union, etc. and the names were different on the NPEs for bulk smokeless powder and those for dense smokeless powder. Winchester did a similar thing where their factory loaded shells were head-stamped WINCHESTER REPEATER or WINCHESTER LEADER while the NPEs they sold were head-stamped 1901 LEADER or 1901 REPEATER.
Re: Remington 1889 Date of Manufacture and chamber length
I guess I don't have any of those brass shells as mine are head-stamped either UMC or Winchester.
As an aside, when were brass shells generally discontinued in the retail market? I know they were used in Viet Nam and still maybe used for military purposes.
As an aside, when were brass shells generally discontinued in the retail market? I know they were used in Viet Nam and still maybe used for military purposes.
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frankiesaysrelax
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Re: Remington 1889 Date of Manufacture and chamber length
Wow! I'm impressed. I never knew there was such a variation in shotshells. Especially interesting that the longer shells were for increased wadding and not what we think of now, a heavier load. Thanks for the lesson.
I've heard many people have shot these older Remington shotguns with regular 2 3/4" shells without any problem at all. I'll probably take it to the trap range for fun next time we go. I have an 1100 Trap model and my wife has an 870 TB, so the 1889 should feel right at home. Especially if I bring out my '30s vintage Sportsman.
So early 1904. 112 years old. That's pretty cool. The fact that it is in perfect working order after so many years and so much use is a real testament to the quality of these old Remingtons. They say the 1889 was the last of the great hammer guns.
Thanks Fellas.
I've heard many people have shot these older Remington shotguns with regular 2 3/4" shells without any problem at all. I'll probably take it to the trap range for fun next time we go. I have an 1100 Trap model and my wife has an 870 TB, so the 1889 should feel right at home. Especially if I bring out my '30s vintage Sportsman.
So early 1904. 112 years old. That's pretty cool. The fact that it is in perfect working order after so many years and so much use is a real testament to the quality of these old Remingtons. They say the 1889 was the last of the great hammer guns.
Thanks Fellas.
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Researcher
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Re: Remington 1889 Date of Manufacture and chamber length
I was writing about paper shells. Brass cases were all hand-loaded back in the day. The only factory loaded brass shells I know of are the recent decades military buckshot loads, and those recent Remington commemorative shells.
Re: Remington 1889 Date of Manufacture and chamber length
I have 10 Remington SxS's - only one is a 10ga. In my 12's I shoot 2 3/4 and have never had a problem, but I reload and keep everything under 8000psi with 3/4oz of shot. I don't like recoil or should I say slapped in the face that the old SxS's will do with a lot of drop in the stock. The more drop, the more the barrels want to recoil up. In my 10ga Remingtons and Parkers only 1oz is used, but then 99% of my shooting is clay birds.