Model 14/141 / mBulletin #14 / Loading Gates, Ammo, and internet parts

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nambujim
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:16 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Model 14/141 / mBulletin #14 / Loading Gates, Ammo, and internet parts

Post by nambujim »

I apologize to some of the folks I've responded to of late, been a bit testy and sarcastic. I think its a combination of having to repeat myself time and again coupled with old age. I will repeat what I've been telling folks for some time in that these rifles are "parts specific" particularly when the Model 14 is involved. The 141 parts in many cases can be switched around but somewhere around serial 50-55,000 that became iffy.

The biggest problem with parts from Gunbroker, Ebay, and Numrich is they all seem to think they're the same, they are NOT so when you see a bolt, trigger guard assembly, loading gate, action bar, and whatever advertised as fitting the 14-141 they are not being truthful. In the case of the 14 the guns were individually "hand" assembled from a "specific" set of parts, your chances of a random bolt or guard fitting your gun are pretty slim!!!

LOADING GATES:
First thing you need to know is there is a stop on the bottom of the gate to prevent the follower from shooting forward into the guts of the rifle. The gate has been hardened so its rare the "stop" wears down so if you're follower is passing by the gate then you probably have an undersized follower. I have had a couple of instances over the years where I did replace a gate to properly hold the follower in place but this is rare.

Followers like most parts for the Model 14 are a real can of worms, you can't tell a good one from a bad one without testing it, and just about each one is different. I just spread 32 followers out on my workbench and seriously, no two are the same and there are some differences between 14 & 141 gates. Also, for the 14/141 they usually mark those for the .35 and most of the early gates for the .25 Cal. Model 14 were marked. This marking was either a 35 or 25 stamped on the side.

If you are having trouble with the follower passing by the gate, look to the follower (they are much softer metal) rather than the gate. You also need to keep in mind these guns are old, lots of uneducated hands have been messing with them over the years. One of the more common causes of an undersize follower will be that the owner got a dent in the magazine tube causing the follower to hang up, it apparently is a lot easier to grind down the follower to fit than remove the dent from the tube. The result of making the follower smaller in diameter is that it will pass by the stop on the loading gate and/or shoot out through the loading gate. The latter was fairly common so Remington made the follower longer on the Model 141 making it almost impossible for the follower to exit the loading gate.

I can't possibly address "all" the why's and wherefore's involved with the gate and follower but have tried to address some of them. If you buy a gate off Ebay or anywhere else, the odds of it working in your specific rifle are about 5%.

EBAY PARTS FOR THE MODEL 14 / 141:
Seriously folks, 90% of the sellers haven't got a clue so they advertise these parts as fitting the 14-141, that is just plain crap. No bolt made for a 14 will fit a 141 and vice-versa, adding to that is the fact the guns are parts specific!!! A specific set of matched parts was put into your Model 14 (action bar, carrier, stop, bolt) and remove any one of these and you're in trouble. I found that about 90% of the time I can put in a matched set of parts into a random rifle with a similar serial and they will work with the existing guard assembly.

Right now on Ebay you have a chap advertising a nice Model 14 Fore End for use on either the 14 or 141, yeah that really works well with the much larger diameter barrel of the 141. The exception to this would be those first 4,000 141's that used Model 14 barrels............actually it was guns with serial 4,000 and under and since they started serials at 1001 its only 3,000 guns.

GRAF & REED BRASS/AMMO:
I'll get this off my chest right here and now, I "personally" consider the brass from these folks as crap when compared to the R-P/Winchester stuff of old. That being said, we can't readily buy the good stuff so "you" are stuck with buying what is available and I suppose we should be grateful of that!!

I'm sure this brass is going to get better as the manufacturer responds to complaints but in the "new America" nobody really gives a damn, this is what we have.........good luck.

I use less and less ammo/brass every year but I continue to find a good deal on a box of ammo or 50 pieces of new R-P brass without making much of an effort and jump on it. The result is I have enough so my great grand children will be working off my inventory. You too can find some original brass/ammo at a fair price, just look for it, it works a whole lot "gooder" than the "other stuff"!!

I was given some rounds to test from Graf, Reed, and Gemini defense but none of these utilized a factory crimp which turned me off instantly. They also varied in OACL and just about all think spire point bullets are OK in the 14/141...........they are NOT!!! Some dumbass gun writers as late as 2017 think the spiral tube allowed the use of pointed ammunition and that is simply not the case. The hang tags that came with the Model 14 specifically stated "Use Round Nose Ammunition Only". I don't like their brass/ammunition for a number of reasons like "neck cracking" and the like BUT the good news for me was they make good "dummy rounds" for testing the feed on rifles I repair. Buffalo Arms still makes the most dependable after-market ammunition for these rifles and does differentiate between rounds that can be used in the Model 8/81 and 14/141. Buffalo does use Graf Brass which seems to be the lesser of the evils.

OK...........Enuff, just wanted to annoy some folks while providing the best information I can while I can!

Jim Peterson
Charlotte, NC
Jim Peterson
Jim585
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: Model 14/141 / mBulletin #14 / Loading Gates, Ammo, and internet parts

Post by Jim585 »

I have a few boxes of 35 Remington Factory RN ammo if anyone in the Rochester NY area needs some, send me a PM.
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