Swedish Remington Calibres

Topics related to Pre - 1898 Remington Rifles
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terryh
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:11 pm

Swedish Remington Calibres

Post by terryh » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:42 pm

I recently bought a rolling block at auction. It was catalogued as 12.7x45R. The gun was made by Carl Gustav. I have since been told that if it was made by Carl Gustav, then it cannot be a 12.7x45R (also known as 12.8x45R Papal). It has been suggested that the calibre of my rifle is probably 12.17x44R.
My problem is that here in the UK, a 12.7x45R can be held without a licence as an antique or curio, but a 12.17x44R can only be held as a registered firearm.
Has anyone out there heard of a Carl Gustav rifle chambered for 12.7x45 (or 12.8x45 Papal).

Terry

tjack
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:15 pm

Re: Swedish Remington Calibres

Post by tjack » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:56 pm

Terry,
Your rifle is originally chambered for the 12mm Swedish cartridge. It was also used by Norway. Both countries have slightly different names (metric designations) for the same cartridge. However, the Norwegian ctg was 2mm longer than the Swede. The Papal 12mm is nothing more than the .50-70 Government (USA) cartridge. The two are fully interchangeable. However, the 12mm Swede is NOT interchangeable with the 12mm Papal/.50-70 govt.
I'm tempted to make a comment about a govt. that restricts a cartridge has to be made by reforming some other case and having no restrictions on a case that is readily available but, I won't!
Jean Huon, in his "Military Rifle & Machine Gun Cartridges" lists the 12.17 Swedish Remington as "also know as 12 x 44R, 12.17 x 44 R, 12.17 Norwegian Remington, and 12.17mm Lund".

terryh
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:11 pm

Re: Swedish Remington Calibres

Post by terryh » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:59 am

Thanks for the information tjack.

I can only agree with you that our firearms legislation is seriously flawed. There is a comprehensive list of so called obsolete calibres which runs to 8 pages. We are permitted to possess guns of these calibres, but not to fire them. Several of the inclusions are surprising to say the least. It is possible that the 12.17x44 has been left off due to the lack of knowledge of the compilers of the list. I am at the moment trying to contact our national shooting and conservation organisation to get clarification.

The minimum penalty over here for possession of an illegal firearm is 5 years at Her Majesties pleasure; so if my posts stop suddenly, you will know what has happened.

Thanks again,

Terry

tjack
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:15 pm

Re: Swedish Remington Calibres

Post by tjack » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:56 pm

Best of luck Terry!!!!

ROLLING BLOCK
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:34 pm

Re: Swedish Remington Calibres

Post by ROLLING BLOCK » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:09 pm

50-70 cases can be made to fit the 12.17 Swedish. I do that already with my one. Problem is getting a mold to suit as 50cal is normally 512-515 whereas the Swede is507-8 Buffalo make a mold to suit and you can trim 50-70 cases to dimensions.

tjack
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:15 pm

Re: Swedish Remington Calibres

Post by tjack » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:43 am

The problem with bore measurements is that we are referring to an era where our accustomed uniformity was non existent. My 5 Swede Rolling Blocks (rifle and carbine) have groove diameters of: .511"-.512", .505"-.506", .508"-.509", and two at .510".I use NEI mold #510-400 and use different lube/sizing dies for what I want. This is because over the years I've hoarded vast quantities of wheel weights for bullets. Using 1:20 tin/lead would probably solve the multiple lube sizer dies. The 12mm Swede is listed as having a base diameter of .550". The .50-70 is listed as having a base of .565". Anyone planning on shooting any of these old rifles should slug their own bores to see what diameter of bullet will probably work best for them.

stanforth
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:56 am
Location: Oxford England

Re: Swedish Remington Calibres

Post by stanforth » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:17 pm

Terry.
The 12.7x44R is the conversion of the 12.17X42R which was a rimfire round. The chamber was not alterted only the firing pin hole was blocked and a centrefire striker fitted.
Under the Firearms act 1968 ammemded in 1996 section 58(2) states that you can own a rimfire weapon other then one of less than .23 or capable of chambering a 9mm round providing that is retains it's original chambering. Your chambering will not have changed so if you block the cetre hole and reopen the lower, rimfire hole you will be back to original.

I own (on ticket) and shoot a 12.7X44R Remington made by Husquvarna in 1874 but was wise enough to list it as a '12.7mm Remington'.

12.7 Swedish rifles are being openly sold as 'Section 58' here in the UK.

stanforth
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:56 am
Location: Oxford England

Re: Swedish Remington Calibres

Post by stanforth » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:24 pm

Terry.
I use 12.7X44R cases made by Bertram and sold by Henry Krank.
I use a Lee mould for 50/70. It casts a 450 grain bullet of .515 that I size using a home made sizing die to .504. With a 60 grain charge of FFG I get super results to 200yards. I haven't tried longer range.
Using a Black powder gun it would ruin the fun to use nitro and the Rolling Block is such an easy rife to clean.

See you at Bisley sometime??

stanforth
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:56 am
Location: Oxford England

Re: Swedish Remington Calibres

Post by stanforth » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:55 am

Terry
I have sent you a PM.
Stanforth

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