1858 Civilian Model?

[Jinethecavalry]

I purchased an 1858 New Model Army a few years ago that came from an estate sale in the Shenandoah Valley. It does not the typical stamping on the top of the barrel (in fact none at all) and no cartouche stamp in the grip. I've read that civilian models were produced without the barrel stamping. Does this square with the knowledgeable who visit here? The serial numbers, which all match are in the 52,000 range; if this is indeed a civilian model, would such would a number fall in place with the government contract models?

It also has "CS" stamped into the butt of the grip, which I realize is very, very likely a bogus add-on.

TIA for any helpful input!

[ROLLING BLOCK]

Hi , given the serial number of your pistol, manufacture would be in the middle of the civil war when the Remington plant would have been full on producing arms for the war effort and therefore unlikely producing guns for civilian trade. Also, to my knowlege, all Remington sold pistols have typical address stampings applicable to the firearm. You may have noted that I refer to Remington [sold] firearms. It is possible that you do have a pistol that was :liberated: from the factory but I would not expect a liberated one to be numbered. Pics would help a great deal to identify your pistol. Hope this helps in some way.

[Jinethecavalry]

ROLLING BLOCK,

Per your suggestion I'm including three images here- left view of pistol, top of barrel (minus any stamping), and serial number stamp on bottom of barrel:







Thanks for your input thus far!

Jine

[ROLLING BLOCK]

Hi again, in your initial post you stated all serial numbers match. This tells me that you have removed the grips to reveal the frame number and that is the same as barrel number. One other possibility is that the pistol may have been refurbished at some time well past. Pictures show a nice age patina on the gun but the address etc on these was very light and would be easy to erase in a refurbish. I have one that you can barely read just through normal use and holster wear. I hope that someone else on this forum has something similar and chips in. You have a very interesting pistol and I hope more is learned about it.

[Jinethecavalry]

Thank you again, ROLLING BLOCK for your input. When I first acquired the piece I researched every avenue I knew to try, ending up assuming that the stamping had been deliberately removed. Some time later as I stated, I read that there were civilian models that did not have the address stamping. I found this in a large softbound collector's/buyer's guide and possibly Remington-specific, and I figured that the lack of a cartouche in the grip would add merit to the idea.

In the research I've done I've yet to come across any other suggestion of a "civilian model", but decided it was high time to inquire here. That is interesting to me that you have an example with the stamping nearly worn off from normal wear; that being the case I can see where it wouldn't require much "refurbishing" for the stamping to disappear. I initially thought that were the "CS" stamped in the grip's butt to be the genuine article that maybe some vengeful reb may have deliberately removed the stamping, which if genuine may still be the case. A frightening thought is that some idiot, maybe even back around the centennial "celebrations" of the war, may have stamped the grip and removed the barrel stamping to try to pass it off as a Southern manufacturing. As with every primitive and antique firearm I own I so wish I could hear the stories it could tell.

As to serial numbers, the frame, barrel and cylinder numbers do all match. If I am able to determine anything further I'll be sure to reveal my findings here. Thank you again for your interest and your input.

Jinethecavalry

[ROLLING BLOCK]

Hi again Jine, I have four new models, serial numbers 25482 27254 68906 and 99693. The later one is a conversion to centerfire, but the rest would be civil war era and not a cartouch to be seen on any of them. All have the Remington address and all but one, the one I mentioned to you, are clear within reason. I would therefore not place any great concern of lack of cartouch and just maybe, the cs you mention in your post, could be a long ago owner of this pistol. I also have a Beales navy serial number 1268 which has no cartouch. Your pics have been a great addition to your post and I hope to hear more on this firearm.

[falcon45]

i have one too without markings on barrel . the serial number on trigger guard and left side grip match they are 40126 close to yours I wonder if something was going on at factory in that time period?

[Jinethecavalry]

ROLLINGBLOCK, I delayed my reply long enough to go to a humongous season-opening book fair this past Saturday, where last year I saw the book I referred to which started me down the "Cilivian's" path. The book was not there, and the supply of similar books was surprisingly slim.

The reason I emphasized the lack of cartouche was I recalled the book stated its absence was one of the two indicators of civilian models, the other being the lack of the address stamp. One other thing that has come back to me since was that book put the value of "civilian models" roughly in line with government surplus models.

Again, I appreciate your input and interest.

Falcon45, be assured I will update this post with any further information I might find. Does yours have the serial number on the ratchet face, extreme rear surface of the cylinder? Mine is present there, broken into three segments.

Keep that powder dry.

[Sabre1913]

Hello there Jinethecavalry-

This is my first post and I wanted to pass on to you that there is a Remington New Model Army Frame and barrel for sale by Joe Salter, an Antiques Dealer in New Hampshire, on the following website for $250. Here is the link:

http://www.joesalter.com/

The item number is #14957. What I wanted to tell you is that it seems to be very close to the Serial Number to the one you have posted, 52542, which I believe is only 41 numbers away if I am not mistaken. If so, my apologies. Hope this is of interest to you. Best Wishes.