NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

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Nodakr68
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 am

NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by Nodakr68 »

Good Morning Everyone,
I recently picked up my first 1858 Remington New Army Conversion, in 44 centerfire. The barrel and frame serial numbers do not match (barrel is 23368, frame is 21904) but every area is stamped with the number 19, barrel, frame, cylinder, trigger guard.....possibly from when it was converted ??

Also there is no cartouche on the left grip, but on the inside of the right grip is etched “X A”. Under the trigger guard, on the frame, appears to be stamped “IF” and “R”

I’ll include as many photos as I can. Some of the stamping is hard to read due to pitting. Thank you in advance for any help !!

Clay
Last edited by Nodakr68 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nodakr68
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 am

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by Nodakr68 »

More photos for everyones review, to help identify my pistol. Thank you for any help.

Clay
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billt
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 6:42 pm

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by billt »

Hello Clay,
Could you post a picture of each side of the whole gun? I suspect it is a non-Remington conversion and the number 19 is an assembly number. I have seen letters stamped on the frame under the trigger guard on most of the revolvers I have examined and I believe they have something to do with the manufacture of the frame. I have also seen the "PAT. APP'D FOR" on the backing plate of at lease one other revolver.

Bill

Nodakr68
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 am

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by Nodakr68 »

Thanks Bill.

Here is a couple more photos
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Nodakr68
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 am

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by Nodakr68 »

Somebody told me it possibly could be a Whitney conversion ? I thought Eli Whitney Jr. only worked with Colt and of course those firearms of his own design.

Any idea what the EC stamp may stand for ?

billt
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 6:42 pm

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by billt »

It could be a Whitney conversion he certainly had the expertise to do it, however I doubt he would have worked with Remington on conversions because Remington was trying to keep their employees busy after their revolver contracts dried up after the Civil War. Where on the revolver is the EC located?

Bill

Nodakr68
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 am

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by Nodakr68 »

Bill the EC is stamped on the inside of the frame....near the barrel threads
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Nodakr68
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 am

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by Nodakr68 »

Sorry, I meant left side of frame, near the barrel threads.....very small stamp

Nodakr68
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 am

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by Nodakr68 »

And is there any info on either of the serial numbers ? Just trying to piece about as much info as I can to try and figure out it’s story.

Thank you for all of your help so far. Clay

aardq
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:02 pm

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by aardq »

Hi Clay,

While we wait for Bill's expertise, I can help with the numbers. Both numbers were made in May of 1863. It is possible that for some reason the bbl failed inspection, and another bbl was screwed into the frame. That's just a guess. What is the number on the trigger guard tab? If it matches the frame, the bbl may have been replaced. If it matches neither bbl or frame, it may be an assembled gun, possibly for civilian sales, or possibly some time after it left the factory. Let's see what Bill thinks.

Nodakr68
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 am

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by Nodakr68 »

All numbers match except the barrel.....and the conversion number “19” is on all including the barrel. The EC would seem now to be an inspectors stamp, after the changed barrel passed ?

I did find out that Whitney did do some Remington Navy conversions, so it’s possible he did New Army’s as well....

billt
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 6:42 pm

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by billt »

I have never seen that stamp on any Remington revolver but that does not mean it is not a Remington stamp. I checked one of my percussion revolvers with a mixed numbered barrel and frame and found there is an inspection stamp on each side of the barrel (W,J) and on each side of the frame (C,C) in the same place as yours. I then checked a percussion transition revolver with matching numbers (SN17267) and it also had two stamps on the barrel (A,J) and two on the frame (S,J). I haven’s seen a dual letter inspection stamp so it may be related to the conversion.
As far as the serial numbers go Dan is correct. Your revolver most likely had a barrel, which failed inspection and a different barrel, which had been removed from a previous revolver was substituted for it. I have recorded about sixty revolvers with mixed serial numbers most of which have barrels with lower serial numbers than the frames.

Bill

Nodakr68
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 am

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by Nodakr68 »

Thank you for all of the help everyone !!

So question that remains, is everything is tight, and cylinder rotates and locks up appropriately....if I wanted to shoot this recreationally, what kind of loads did it use to shoot (it measures 44 caliber) ?? Is there modern brass that can be loaded ?? And if so, how many grains of blackpowder would be safe ??

Is there any outlets or companies that specialize in antique ammo ?

Clay

dieNusse1
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:12 pm
Location: Peoria Heights, IL

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by dieNusse1 »

I assume the load for a C&B pistol would be the same for a cartridge load. For a 44 cal. C&B load I use about 22 - 28 gr and 15 - 20 gr. for 36 cal. depending on the weapon. The load does affect accuracy so bit of experimentation may be needed. In both cases I use FFFG. As far as BP substitutes I've only used them in shot shells and rifles so maybe someone else can help.

Nodakr68
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 am

Re: NEED HELP, Identify 1858 New Army Conversion

Post by Nodakr68 »

Since this a conversion pistol though, what kind of brass would I need, or need to find ?

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