Could anyone tell me ?

Topics related to Pre - 1898 Remington Pistols
Patbar
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:14 am

Could anyone tell me ?

Post by Patbar » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:44 am

I just acquired a Remington over-under derringer, type II model No.3, serial 416. Could anybody tell me about when it was manufactured ?
Thanks for your help.

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:14 pm

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by admin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:17 am

Patbar wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:44 am
I just acquired a Remington over-under derringer, type II model No.3, serial 416. Could anybody tell me about when it was manufactured ?
Thanks for your help.
Is that the Blue Book type/model or the collector type/model?

I think you need a picture or two.

ChuckD
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: Northern IL

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by ChuckD » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:49 pm

As admin stated, a photo of the barrel markings would be the most accurate identifier.
The various type/models are primarily determined by the company names and placement.
Is yours marked E. Remington & sons, Remington Arms Co., or Remington Arms U.M.C.?
If Remington Arms Co., then the style and length of marking will determine the variation.

Patbar
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:14 am

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by Patbar » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:37 am

As you asked, here are somme pictures of my gun. I know that this model was produced between 1888 and 1911, but what I'd like to know is the exact year of production.
Do you think that its low serial number (416) could mean that it was manufactured in 1888 ? Visibly, it has never been fired because the barrels are absolutely mint, which is pretty rare on these derringers.
Attachments
rem3.jpg
rem3.jpg (200.13 KiB) Viewed 2060 times
rem2.jpg
rem2.jpg (239.63 KiB) Viewed 2060 times
rem1.jpg
rem1.jpg (242.79 KiB) Viewed 2060 times

aardq
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:02 pm

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by aardq » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:00 am

You have a third model, made 1888 to 1911. These were made in batches, so your gun was 416 in a particular batch. Because of that, there is no way to date the gun further. The grips are probably after market. It appears that your gun has a vertical, hairline crack on the left hinge at the 6 o'clock position, but that may just be the photo.

Patbar
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:14 am

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by Patbar » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:10 am

Boy, you have a very acute eyesight, aardq. I didn't notice this crack when I bought the gun ! Fortunately, I don't intend to fire it.

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:14 pm

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by admin » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:07 pm

I'm not sure the grips aren't original but the screw certainly is. Maybe Dan she's something I'm missing.... I'd like to see a picture of the grips oon the gun from the back to see the width of them. Originals are thin replacements are typically thick.

Patbar
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:14 am

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by Patbar » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:37 am

Here is a photo of the grips from the back of the gun. They are pretty thin (their thickness is the same from top to bottom) and have a perfect fit.
Attachments
PC110003.jpg
PC110003.jpg (174.68 KiB) Viewed 2024 times

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:14 pm

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by admin » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:15 am

They look right to me except the screw of course it's only my option from pictures...

aardq
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:02 pm

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by aardq » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:44 pm

Agree with David. The grips looked thicker in the first pic, and they looked too "new" to be original. They just didn't look right, plus the screw. Seeing them from the back I now agree with David.

Patbar
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:14 am

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by Patbar » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:23 am

I really don't understand this batch numbering system ! Of what use is a serial number if you can find the same on several guns of the same model ??

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:14 pm

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by admin » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:44 am

Patbar wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:23 am
I really don't understand this batch numbering system ! Of what use is a serial number if you can find the same on several guns of the same model ??
Remember a WHOLE lot of antique (and even relatively modern) didn't have a serial at all. It wasn't until 1968 that it was legally required. (Even on 22's and other requirements) Most manufactures had mostly started by then anyhow with a bit of a glaring exception on 22's. Others may correct or adjust this statement it's off the top my head as well.

It's actually called a batch model but "technically" it's not that at least considering what I think of a "batch" when mom bakes cookies :lol:

On this example they started at 1 went to 9999 and then started over again at 1, I don't believe anyone can tell you based on which variation (5 maybe 6 I have a picture of all the tops showing variations around here somewhere) which was second, the "shortline" is accepted as being first and not repeated ~top serial found 3022? (where the first variation knowledges actually originated from I don't know, EJ might know?) but in other words no one knows the REAL order of the rest or how many times they went around with "batch" numbers until the next type "UMC". The UMC is the only one where real serial/date information exists except near the top where mono-blocks started showing up without a whole lot of logic interspersed in serials. Then they just totally screwed up when they introduced the L serials.

I think all this adds to the interest of DD's, if there's one on western this is it and a lot of interesting details out there if you start looking. There are some quite rare variations out there..

Patbar
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:14 am

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by Patbar » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:51 am

Thanks for all these infos, admin. I looked around the net with the help of Google, but I didn't find very much to read about the DD's !

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:14 pm

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by admin » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:03 am

That's why your here :lol:

I believe there is actually several people on this forum that know a lot about DD's better then me and someone (not me) but I think it exists a list of every model / variation. Actually it's probably in Doug's book..
There's somethings I don't put on line due to respect to the author which might be huey but this list would be nice online if it isn't.

aardq
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:02 pm

Re: Could anyone tell me ?

Post by aardq » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:51 am

Many manufacturers don't produce every item or every model all the time. The produce a run of model x and then switch production to model y, and switch again and again. Modern gun makers due the same thing.

Rem would start production of the DDs at #1 and run the numbers sequentially until the end of the batch. Pending orders probably determined how many were made in any give batch. A year or whenever later, they began production of the next batch of DDs, they again started with #1. There is no way to know how many were in any given batch, and the number made probably changed with each batch made.

At one time the founder of Dixie Gun Works had a small collection of DDs that were serial #1.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests